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I'd say they still don't understand why VSCode adoption is rising. There are two reasons: - People don't know better (yes, they really don't) - Language serv

I'd say they still don't understand why VSCode adoption is rising. There are two reasons: - People don't know better (yes, they really don't) - Language server allowed languages with abysmal tools to finally have some semblance of an IDE None of us know the future, but in my opinion Fleet is a mistake: - It tries to fight VSCode at VSCode's turf (an editor with primitive IDE functionality) - while trying to be a testbed for new UI for JetBrains IDEs - while trying to both serve the Language Server crowd and keep JetBrain's vastly superior language tools - while diluting JetBrains' offer of development tools

microtonal 4y ago
People don't know better (yes, they really don't) Or maybe VS Code is just really good? I was skeptical for a long time as well. I am a longtime Emacs and JetBrains IDE user (starting with IntelliJ in 2013). A while back I gave VS Code a try again. I primarily used CLion for Rust and PyCharm. And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm (with the exception of Cython). And thanks to VS Code's rich plugin ecosystem, I have a Magit implementation that is almost as good as Emacs Magit, the same with VSpaceCode to get Spacemacs/Doom-like spacebar-driven workflows. My JetBrains All Products Pack is up for renewal later this month, but I am seriously considering to let it lapse...
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Or maybe VS Code is just really good? It's okay. And its ecosystem is also anywhere from okay to abysmal. For languages (like Rust) that never really had any tools to begin with it seems like an amazing IDE/editor. In comparison to what IDEA offers for more established languages (anything from language support to framework support) it's ... just okay :)
- xfer 4y ago
  I also think vscode is really good enough for development and has a healthy plugin interface. I only miss my vim navigation when working in it, nothing beats vscode remote mode and it's free.
- yoyohello13 4y ago
  > And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm I think Rust support is comparable (probably because they both use rust-analyzer). I've found the opposite for Python. PyCharm is WAY smarter than VS Code.
  - microtonal 4y ago
    I don’t think CLion uses rust-analyzer. IIRC it uses their own thing which was developed by the same person who later made rust-analyzer. Edit: more info: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq.html#use-rls-racer-rustanalyzer https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq...
  - alanwreath 4y ago
    same, I've used both -- gave vscode a good year of trying to do python with it and Pycharm is doing more to understand my code. I'm not even using the integrated database junk either and it still does more. That said there is one part where I still have to turn to VSCode and that's when I want live breakpoints inside of a Tilt powered Kubernetes pod. I like the way that those settings are persisted so that other dev's can also use the debug functionality with literally one click. If pycharm just made remote debugging easy I'd never have to open VSCode for python development (but I'd probably still open it for something else like a quick editor of a file -- it's like my new vim). VSCode shines for supporting odd-ball languages and libraries sooner than JetBrains - and opens relatively quickly, sublime is much faster and I still use it for large files -- I just wish it was a little less involved to extend like VSCode.
TillE 4y ago
> Language server allowed languages with abysmal tools to finally have some semblance of an IDE Oh yeah, this is absolutely true. If VS Code is the de facto standard for your language, it's probably a decent experience. I use it for 6502 assembly. But I see people talking up VS Code over Visual Studio for C++ or C#, which I find completely baffling.
zo1 4y ago
It's not that they don't know better. I'd say it's all down to marketing and sheer numbers in developer mindshare. This is from my experience: Just listen to most junior developers. They regurgitate and repeat marketing fluff spoken to them by twitter evangelists or twitch developer streams. I just spent the afternoon listening to it and it was sickening. You can't reason or get through to them. Compromise and nuance just feeds their pompous attitude. /rant
fomine3 4y ago
Remote (Container|WSL|SSH) extension is a game changer. IntelliJ Remote Development is similar feature but VSCode is superior.

microtonal 4y ago

People don't know better (yes, they really don't) Or maybe VS Code is just really good? I was skeptical for a long time as well. I am a longtime Emacs and JetBrains IDE user (starting with IntelliJ in 2013). A while back I gave VS Code a try again. I primarily used CLion for Rust and PyCharm. And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm (with the exception of Cython). And thanks to VS Code's rich plugin ecosystem, I have a Magit implementation that is almost as good as Emacs Magit, the same with VSpaceCode to get Spacemacs/Doom-like spacebar-driven workflows. My JetBrains All Products Pack is up for renewal later this month, but I am seriously considering to let it lapse...

dmitriid 4y ago
> Or maybe VS Code is just really good? It's okay. And its ecosystem is also anywhere from okay to abysmal. For languages (like Rust) that never really had any tools to begin with it seems like an amazing IDE/editor. In comparison to what IDEA offers for more established languages (anything from language support to framework support) it's ... just okay :)
xfer 4y ago
I also think vscode is really good enough for development and has a healthy plugin interface. I only miss my vim navigation when working in it, nothing beats vscode remote mode and it's free.
yoyohello13 4y ago
> And I found that the Rust/Python is at least as good as in CLion/PyCharm I think Rust support is comparable (probably because they both use rust-analyzer). I've found the opposite for Python. PyCharm is WAY smarter than VS Code.
- microtonal 4y ago
  I don’t think CLion uses rust-analyzer. IIRC it uses their own thing which was developed by the same person who later made rust-analyzer. Edit: more info: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq.html#use-rls-racer-rustanalyzer https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8182-rust/docs/rust-faq...
- alanwreath 4y ago
  same, I've used both -- gave vscode a good year of trying to do python with it and Pycharm is doing more to understand my code. I'm not even using the integrated database junk either and it still does more. That said there is one part where I still have to turn to VSCode and that's when I want live breakpoints inside of a Tilt powered Kubernetes pod. I like the way that those settings are persisted so that other dev's can also use the debug functionality with literally one click. If pycharm just made remote debugging easy I'd never have to open VSCode for python development (but I'd probably still open it for something else like a quick editor of a file -- it's like my new vim). VSCode shines for supporting odd-ball languages and libraries sooner than JetBrains - and opens relatively quickly, sublime is much faster and I still use it for large files -- I just wish it was a little less involved to extend like VSCode.

TillE 4y ago

> Language server allowed languages with abysmal tools to finally have some semblance of an IDE Oh yeah, this is absolutely true. If VS Code is the de facto standard for your language, it's probably a decent experience. I use it for 6502 assembly. But I see people talking up VS Code over Visual Studio for C++ or C#, which I find completely baffling.

zo1 4y ago

It's not that they don't know better. I'd say it's all down to marketing and sheer numbers in developer mindshare. This is from my experience: Just listen to most junior developers. They regurgitate and repeat marketing fluff spoken to them by twitter evangelists or twitch developer streams. I just spent the afternoon listening to it and it was sickening. You can't reason or get through to them. Compromise and nuance just feeds their pompous attitude. /rant

fomine3 4y ago

Remote (Container|WSL|SSH) extension is a game changer. IntelliJ Remote Development is similar feature but VSCode is superior.