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Modern Emacs, at least, works better in GUI mode than in terminal mode. It's got a different style and design philosophy than VSCode et al—which results in a st

Modern Emacs, at least, works better in GUI mode than in terminal mode. It's got a different style and design philosophy than VSCode et al—which results in a steeper learning curve for most people—but it's absolutely comparable in capabilities and general experience. Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim, but can't vouch for them because I do not use them myself.

alwillis 4y ago
Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim Yes; especially Neovim, which not only has several GUI’s but it's designed to be embeddable, including into VS Code or a web browser. Neovim has native support for LSP and Treesitter, which enables it to IDE-like things. Neovim is extensible using Lua 5.1 and comes with LuaJIT for speed. It’s not just a command line thing.
- kamaal 4y ago
  No, it is a command line thing. Neovim and vim are just the editor component of the bigger tools that is something like vscode. To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it, and is not really a trivial job for everybody to do this from scratch. Hence the use is by and large restricted to one off server side editing(This itself is getting rarer these days with containers). In cases where Neovim is plugged into thing like vscode the experience is less than seamless. You have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard modes, formatting plugins like black for Python don't autoformat on save like they do on normal vscode editor. The intellisense doesn't work, etc.. Apart from bare minimal modal editing you really get nothing much. To make vim/Neovim/emacs nearly as usable you need to reinvent these editing ideas but in the paradigm of modern day development workflow. And it needs be as ubiquitous as vscode. There must be little configuration work and things must work out of the box. And lets be honest typing speed is not even relevant to software development speed so the editing efficiency gains in vim/emacs, while might save your day in heavy lifting text tasks via macros. They don't add that much gains to your workflow in normal development scenarios.
  - nextaccountic 4y ago
    > To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it Why? Neovim has multiple package managers. It has GUIs like https://github.com/neovide/neovide https://github.com/neovide/neovide, it has support for LSP which can do something? Many people are comfortable with programming in an environment like that It also has a terminal (even though if you use neovim you probably prefer to open terminals outside the IDE) and support remote editing too Here are some links https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim & https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://neovide.dev/ https://neovide.dev/ https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html
    - kamaal 4y ago
      Yeah its basically a Do it Yourself kit, not sure if you got the message I wrote in my comment. That is a negative, not a positive. Majority of the people don't have the time, or in many cases competence to spend several man months/years building things like these. Even if you do, you still won't be close to the complete vscode experience.
      - Accacin 4y ago
        It's a negative for you, but not for me :) I guess that's why different editors exist.
      - likeclockwork 4y ago
        You're not the target audience.
      - camgunz 4y ago
        There's not much difference between installing LSPs in VSCode and adding plugins to Vim using Pathogen, vim-plug, or the built-in plugin manager. It's not as if I wrote Pylint myself, I added "dense-analysis/ale" to my config and I was done. I think you're coming from a place of strong familiarity with IDEs, but less familiarity with Vim. From my point of view, if you asked me to switch to VSCode, I probably wouldn't ever be as productive as I am now. This isn't because I was forced to spend hundreds of hours configuring--I was one of those people with a 5 line .vimrc for years--rather, it's because I have the ability to conform Vim to my way of thinking and working. Some people do go ham with their configs, and it's super cool that that's possible (something you can't really do with IDEs). But I think most people probably install a few plugins/language servers, set a few variables for modelines or whatever, and they're good.

alwillis 4y ago

Pretty sure the same is true for Vim or Neovim Yes; especially Neovim, which not only has several GUI’s but it's designed to be embeddable, including into VS Code or a web browser. Neovim has native support for LSP and Treesitter, which enables it to IDE-like things. Neovim is extensible using Lua 5.1 and comes with LuaJIT for speed. It’s not just a command line thing.

kamaal 4y ago
No, it is a command line thing. Neovim and vim are just the editor component of the bigger tools that is something like vscode. To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it, and is not really a trivial job for everybody to do this from scratch. Hence the use is by and large restricted to one off server side editing(This itself is getting rarer these days with containers). In cases where Neovim is plugged into thing like vscode the experience is less than seamless. You have to keep moving between mouse and keyboard modes, formatting plugins like black for Python don't autoformat on save like they do on normal vscode editor. The intellisense doesn't work, etc.. Apart from bare minimal modal editing you really get nothing much. To make vim/Neovim/emacs nearly as usable you need to reinvent these editing ideas but in the paradigm of modern day development workflow. And it needs be as ubiquitous as vscode. There must be little configuration work and things must work out of the box. And lets be honest typing speed is not even relevant to software development speed so the editing efficiency gains in vim/emacs, while might save your day in heavy lifting text tasks via macros. They don't add that much gains to your workflow in normal development scenarios.
- nextaccountic 4y ago
  > To get Neovim kind of things to be anywhere near usable for modern day development work, you need to bolt a file browser, intellisense, command line section, remote editing section, container plugins, plugin installer, settings section etc etc on top of it Why? Neovim has multiple package managers. It has GUIs like https://github.com/neovide/neovide https://github.com/neovide/neovide, it has support for LSP which can do something? Many people are comfortable with programming in an environment like that It also has a terminal (even though if you use neovim you probably prefer to open terminals outside the IDE) and support remote editing too Here are some links https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim https://github.com/wbthomason/packer.nvim & https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://github.com/junegunn/vim-plug https://neovide.dev/ https://neovide.dev/ https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/nvim_terminal_emulator.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html https://neovim.io/doc/user/remote.html
  - kamaal 4y ago
    Yeah its basically a Do it Yourself kit, not sure if you got the message I wrote in my comment. That is a negative, not a positive. Majority of the people don't have the time, or in many cases competence to spend several man months/years building things like these. Even if you do, you still won't be close to the complete vscode experience.
    - Accacin 4y ago
      It's a negative for you, but not for me :) I guess that's why different editors exist.
    - likeclockwork 4y ago
      You're not the target audience.
    - camgunz 4y ago
      There's not much difference between installing LSPs in VSCode and adding plugins to Vim using Pathogen, vim-plug, or the built-in plugin manager. It's not as if I wrote Pylint myself, I added "dense-analysis/ale" to my config and I was done. I think you're coming from a place of strong familiarity with IDEs, but less familiarity with Vim. From my point of view, if you asked me to switch to VSCode, I probably wouldn't ever be as productive as I am now. This isn't because I was forced to spend hundreds of hours configuring--I was one of those people with a 5 line .vimrc for years--rather, it's because I have the ability to conform Vim to my way of thinking and working. Some people do go ham with their configs, and it's super cool that that's possible (something you can't really do with IDEs). But I think most people probably install a few plugins/language servers, set a few variables for modelines or whatever, and they're good.