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> get zero motion sickness Whatever the opposite of a killer app is called (maybe "app killer"?) this is it. Even if it afflicts a relatively small number of

> get zero motion sickness Whatever the opposite of a killer app is called (maybe "app killer"?) this is it. Even if it afflicts a relatively small number of users, it's a serious problem. Besides terrible PR (people less likely to try it because of the risk of a bad experience) it's the fact that any technology that arbitrarily excludes some non-tiny portion of the population is problematic for broad acceptance.

Firmwarrior 4y ago
The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. If you power through sim sickness enough, you'll get to a point where you feel like tossing your cookies when you just look at or think about a VR headset. I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options)
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. Yes. This is absolutely true. Whatever you do: DON'T try to 'fight through it'. As soon as you don't feel well, STOP. Then pick it up later. Soon you will be able to go for a longer time and it'll disappear completely. Make sure your IDP is set correctly. Get an optometrist to check it for you to make sure. Looking crosseyed (unknowingly) really does not help things. If you tried doing it that way you were really doing it wrong. You could indeed develop a negative association to the headset. I had this with the DK1 (Development Kit 1) of the Rift, but this was because it simply had horribly inaccurate 3DOF tracking (not 6DOF as required in the real world), and also a high persistance display. > I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options) It's not. First of all, you have to take it easy like I described. You will accomodate to it much better. Yes some people will never manage it but it's a really small percentage. If you can ride in the back of a car without getting sick, you can do this as long as you take it easy. Also, the experiences Meta is aiming for here don't involve rollercoasters and the like. VR is totally fine if you're moving normally within your free tracked space. The problem starts happening when you move with the stick without actually moving, because the disassociation between the visual and inertial senses. The teleportation option helps a lot. But in a business meeting really you don't have to move around a lot. As long as your motions within that small space are tracked accurately, there will be no motion sickness.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - outworlder 4y ago
    > Get an optometrist to check it for you to make sure. There are plenty of phone apps that can get you an IPD measurement that's accurate enough for glasses prescriptions.
  - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
    > If you can ride in the back of a car without getting sick I can do that if I'm looking out the window, but not if I try to read a book or watch a video. Attention and focus seems to have a lot to do with the problem, which makes sense since the issue is a disconnect between what your brain is experiencing and what your inner ear is experiencing.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  I get motion sickness when I'm playing regular video games, not even VR, that's entirely out of the question. If I don't stop at the first sign of queasiness, which for me creeps up quite slowly, if I don't notice and it gets reasonably strong, it will keep building for another half hour after I stop and can take up to 2 hours to go away. The only thing I can do is lie down with my eyes closed and think about not throwing up. With me, the more focused I am on the game, even if the screen takes up a smaller part of my vision, the sicker I get. The more my lizard brain thinks its reality, the worse it is.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  I don't think that's true in every case. When I first started playing VR I would sometimes get a little motion sick. I kept playing and only took breaks when it got bad. Now almost nothing makes me motion sick except when my headset massively bugs out and the world freezes and even then I don't get that sick just a bit uncomfortable. I've heard of other people purposely training themselves to not be motion sick by playing fairly extreme games or in one case a developer who built a world that would repeatedly drop him from a height. I don't doubt that it's possible to have the opposite outcome, it probably depends on the person and the process they're going through. I just don't think it's a general rule.
Ajedi32 4y ago
Does anybody actually get motion sickness in apps where there's no motion? I've never seen an instance of that. If it does happen to some people I'd be very curious about what causes it since there's no obvious reason why it should occur.
- kevinventullo 4y ago
  I’ve gotten motion sickness just looking at static images from Google Earth. I used to work at Facebook and saw some talks on this. As I understand it, the problem is basically one of latency; the time between when your head moves and when the image updates should be < 7 ms or something like that.
  - Ajedi32 4y ago
    If getting the response times below 7ms is all that's required to fix that problem for the small minority of people who have it then that still seems pretty doable. You would need a 144hz display though. Are you sure you weren't experiencing other problems though, like stuttering or dropped frames? I've noticed Google Earth can have performance issues sometimes depending on how detailed the 3d imagery is in the area you're viewing.
    - giantrobot 4y ago
      > If getting the response times below 7ms is all that's required to fix that problem for the small minority of people who have it then that still seems pretty doable. You would need a 144hz display though. It's not just the frame rate. When your eyes and inner ear don't agree on the perception of movement you can end up with motion sickness. It's very easy in VR for your eyes to see movement counter to what's being perceived by your inner ear.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  You should try the original Oculus Rift dev kit. It didn’t do any head (other than rotation) tracking, and it’s extremely disorienting to move your head and have the view be static.
chaostheory 4y ago
This gets better and better as the hardware improves. Most VR nausea is caused by poor hardware performance
- notamy 4y ago
  That's probably going to be the inevitable problem with VR solutions though, right? Maybe not in the tech bubble, but outside of that, I absolutely can see this going down as some version of "execs get the latest and greatest VR headset, average employee gets the shitty thing from 5 generations ago that induces massive motion sickness" in non-tech companies.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    No, it isn’t because that would mean lost productivity if you’re hinting that anyone not c level gets a nausea inducing headset.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
Apparently its also a problem that affects older people more than younger ones. Good luck getting your VR meetings product off the ground when your 50 year old boss can’t use it without getting sick.

Firmwarrior 4y ago

The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. If you power through sim sickness enough, you'll get to a point where you feel like tossing your cookies when you just look at or think about a VR headset. I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options)

GekkePrutser 4y ago
> The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. Yes. This is absolutely true. Whatever you do: DON'T try to 'fight through it'. As soon as you don't feel well, STOP. Then pick it up later. Soon you will be able to go for a longer time and it'll disappear completely. Make sure your IDP is set correctly. Get an optometrist to check it for you to make sure. Looking crosseyed (unknowingly) really does not help things. If you tried doing it that way you were really doing it wrong. You could indeed develop a negative association to the headset. I had this with the DK1 (Development Kit 1) of the Rift, but this was because it simply had horribly inaccurate 3DOF tracking (not 6DOF as required in the real world), and also a high persistance display. > I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options) It's not. First of all, you have to take it easy like I described. You will accomodate to it much better. Yes some people will never manage it but it's a really small percentage. If you can ride in the back of a car without getting sick, you can do this as long as you take it easy. Also, the experiences Meta is aiming for here don't involve rollercoasters and the like. VR is totally fine if you're moving normally within your free tracked space. The problem starts happening when you move with the stick without actually moving, because the disassociation between the visual and inertial senses. The teleportation option helps a lot. But in a business meeting really you don't have to move around a lot. As long as your motions within that small space are tracked accurately, there will be no motion sickness.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- outworlder 4y ago
  > Get an optometrist to check it for you to make sure. There are plenty of phone apps that can get you an IPD measurement that's accurate enough for glasses prescriptions.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  > If you can ride in the back of a car without getting sick I can do that if I'm looking out the window, but not if I try to read a book or watch a video. Attention and focus seems to have a lot to do with the problem, which makes sense since the issue is a disconnect between what your brain is experiencing and what your inner ear is experiencing.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
I get motion sickness when I'm playing regular video games, not even VR, that's entirely out of the question. If I don't stop at the first sign of queasiness, which for me creeps up quite slowly, if I don't notice and it gets reasonably strong, it will keep building for another half hour after I stop and can take up to 2 hours to go away. The only thing I can do is lie down with my eyes closed and think about not throwing up. With me, the more focused I am on the game, even if the screen takes up a smaller part of my vision, the sicker I get. The more my lizard brain thinks its reality, the worse it is.
throwaway4aday 4y ago
I don't think that's true in every case. When I first started playing VR I would sometimes get a little motion sick. I kept playing and only took breaks when it got bad. Now almost nothing makes me motion sick except when my headset massively bugs out and the world freezes and even then I don't get that sick just a bit uncomfortable. I've heard of other people purposely training themselves to not be motion sick by playing fairly extreme games or in one case a developer who built a world that would repeatedly drop him from a height. I don't doubt that it's possible to have the opposite outcome, it probably depends on the person and the process they're going through. I just don't think it's a general rule.

Ajedi32 4y ago

Does anybody actually get motion sickness in apps where there's no motion? I've never seen an instance of that. If it does happen to some people I'd be very curious about what causes it since there's no obvious reason why it should occur.

kevinventullo 4y ago
I’ve gotten motion sickness just looking at static images from Google Earth. I used to work at Facebook and saw some talks on this. As I understand it, the problem is basically one of latency; the time between when your head moves and when the image updates should be < 7 ms or something like that.
- Ajedi32 4y ago
  If getting the response times below 7ms is all that's required to fix that problem for the small minority of people who have it then that still seems pretty doable. You would need a 144hz display though. Are you sure you weren't experiencing other problems though, like stuttering or dropped frames? I've noticed Google Earth can have performance issues sometimes depending on how detailed the 3d imagery is in the area you're viewing.
  - giantrobot 4y ago
    > If getting the response times below 7ms is all that's required to fix that problem for the small minority of people who have it then that still seems pretty doable. You would need a 144hz display though. It's not just the frame rate. When your eyes and inner ear don't agree on the perception of movement you can end up with motion sickness. It's very easy in VR for your eyes to see movement counter to what's being perceived by your inner ear.
Aeolun 4y ago
You should try the original Oculus Rift dev kit. It didn’t do any head (other than rotation) tracking, and it’s extremely disorienting to move your head and have the view be static.

chaostheory 4y ago

This gets better and better as the hardware improves. Most VR nausea is caused by poor hardware performance

notamy 4y ago
That's probably going to be the inevitable problem with VR solutions though, right? Maybe not in the tech bubble, but outside of that, I absolutely can see this going down as some version of "execs get the latest and greatest VR headset, average employee gets the shitty thing from 5 generations ago that induces massive motion sickness" in non-tech companies.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  No, it isn’t because that would mean lost productivity if you’re hinting that anyone not c level gets a nausea inducing headset.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Apparently its also a problem that affects older people more than younger ones. Good luck getting your VR meetings product off the ground when your 50 year old boss can’t use it without getting sick.