12 ms·

I’ve been a very early adopter of this tech (Kickstarter backer of Oculus), get zero motion sickness and have a great time working in VR through a virtual deskt

I’ve been a very early adopter of this tech (Kickstarter backer of Oculus), get zero motion sickness and have a great time working in VR through a virtual desktop. This looks like a few floating screens in front of my face, in a space station and I’m typing on a real Bluetooth keyboard. I think this is the only way companies will be able to keep remote-friendly polices and stay competitive with product. YMMV because I am biased to be for this, but, the way they’ve tuned this Pro model looks like it’s exactly for my use-case.

modeless 4y ago
There are a lot of people pooh-poohing this who haven't tried a meeting in Workrooms. I was skeptical going in, even as a VR early adopter, and it exceeded my expectations by a long way. It feels a whole lot more like a real meeting than a Zoom call does. I don't know if it's enough better for me to choose it over Zoom in everyday use, but this was on Quest 2. A meeting where everyone is wearing Quest Pro will be significantly better. I expect that the combination of the better screen/lenses, better comfort, much better AR passthrough, and of course the new eye/face tracking will make for a very compelling experience.
- sneak 4y ago
  Is agreeing to the third party abusive Meta/Facebook TOS going to be a requirement of employment with third parties then? Will users be permitted to create accounts only for work? If not, when your personal account gets banned or disabled, will you be unable to work?
  - modeless 4y ago
    The Facebook login requirement is gone. If you are banned from Facebook you can use Quest, no problem. Yes, you can create a separate work account. In fact, Workplace accounts are separate already.
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      This is what kept me from trying Quest despite being a VR superfan. Once they finally announced the account change I took the plunge and picked one up I just didn't want to risk losing hundreds of dollars' worth of games because Facebook's retarded algorithms decided they don't like some meme I posted years ago. (Actually, Facebook's moderation has kept me from using it for anything other than posting family photos and clicking the "like" button on others' photos.. it's just too risky that I'll cross a line and get deleted)
    - numpad0 4y ago
      I’ve heard they still maintain real name basis for the Meta login requirement though…
      - Youden 4y ago
        My Meta account doesn't have my real name and I don't recall anything requesting I add it.
        sneak 4y ago
        Do something to get it in trouble and see if you can get back in without showing ID.
      - agar 4y ago
        That is incorrect. From https://www.meta.com/help/accounts/set-up-meta-account/#:~:text=Email%3A%20You%20can%20only%20create,but%20it%20is%20not%20required https://www.meta.com/help/accounts/set-up-meta-account/#:~:t.... > Email: You can only create one Meta account per email address. First and last name: We recommend using your real name in case you need to recover your account or manage your store purchases, but it is not required.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      Is this a general change? My Rift was nice but it has been gathering dust since that change, it would be cool to hear they've relented.
- hiq 4y ago
  > It feels a whole lot more like a real meeting than a Zoom call does. I haven't had the chance to try it myself, so can you explain how it's better? I feel like the main problem with remote meetings is the audio latency. You cannot speak as you would naturally, you'd speak in turn instead. I'm guessing VR allows you to give and receive visual cues about this so it might be better, is this what you had in mind?
  - modeless 4y ago
    The audio latency is better. You're not sending or receiving HD video so your connection is less loaded and the audio doesn't ever have to be delayed to synchronize with video. And VR devices are better optimized for low latency than your average system. Visual cues for turn taking while speaking work better, as you mentioned. Spatial audio is awesome for locating speakers and differentiating multiple speakers at once. Hand gestures work better; you can actually point at things in a shared 3D space.
    - nwienert 4y ago
      People just won’t put on world-occluding headsets to talk to cartoons, end of the day. Only in bubble-land does this pass the smell test imo.
      - mooreds 4y ago
        I remember swearing up and down that I didn't need a phone I could carry everywhere with me. This was in the late 1990s/early 2000s. What communication was so important that it couldn't wait until I was home, next to my land line and answering machine?
        nwienert 4y ago
        Phones work because they are so simple, unobtrusive and easy to position and use contextually. They are the argument against VR.
- mbreese 4y ago
  > enough better for me to choose it over Zoom in everyday use It doesn’t have to be better than Zoom. It has to be $1500 better than Zoom. Per employee. I’m in agreement with you — I like Immersed and I like the idea of VR meetings. But will people/employers opt for this over a hybrid on-site/remote system? How do VR meetings work when half the team is onsite in a conference zoom? I don’t want to put on a VR a headset to talk to the coworker sitting physically next to me in a conference room. Sadly, I see this as useful only for remote-only teams. As one of a handful of remote people on my team, it doesn’t seem like a workable option, even if I already like/use VR.
  - zachthewf 4y ago
    $1500 is nothing if it makes remote collaboration competitive with IRL collaboration.
    - mbreese 4y ago
      But how often do you have exclusively remote collaboration? I’m sure for many people that is common. It’s not for me. Normally I’m talking with a few people remote in zoom and the rest of the team on site in a conference room. For remote exclusive groups, this makes sense. But does it make sense for businesses to buy this for all of their employees — if they have a hybrid workforce? I would expect most employers will or are shifting towards a hybrid setup. How many remote-only employers are there? Is it enough of a market to make this more than a gimmick? I get VR for personal use. I get it for one-to-one communication. But I’m skeptical for business communication.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - girvo 4y ago
        I work at a place that technically has an office, but 99% of the time only a single person is in it during the week, and 80% of my team now lives across the world (they started here in Aus but moved) -- we're as close to "remote only" as you can get, but my boss and I had a laugh at the Quest Pro (despite us both being VR users!) today when it was announced. Even for remote-only work, it's just not there yet, and not at $2500 AUD per device. Maybe if the next version has a much higher resolution for better text rendering on N virtual screens, so they can have dual-purpose.
- kypro 4y ago
  I tried out Horizon Worlds recently and I was honestly amazed by how immersive it was. I genuinely felt like I was out socialising with people while sat at home. I can definitely see the use cases, especially as the technology improves. If there were live VR music events that me and my friends in different cities and countries could all attend to feel together I imagine I'd use it quite often.
  - gernb 4y ago
    Aren't there several companies that do that ? Maybe https://wavexr.com/ https://wavexr.com/ for example?
  - Foobar8568 4y ago
    This comment reminds me my first times in geocities chatrooms, talking with people all over the world. Welcome to the future.
  - exodust 4y ago
    > live VR music events How does that work? Do you mean the band members are avatars too? Or are you talking about a DJ pressing play, and you're in VR space with your friends basically listening to a playlist? Or are you in a VR cinema with your friends, watching a live stream of a real band?
    - throwaway4aday 4y ago
      It's done a few different ways, I don't think the perfect solution has been found yet. DJs or bands have performed as avatars by using full body tracking. More commonly, the performer will have a camera on them and the video is displayed on a screen in the VR event. They can also see what's happening in the event so it's possible for them to interact with the crowd. As headsets become lighter and more comfortable and FBT gets easier with inside out camera tracking or better trackers; performing as an avatar will become more common. The events are usually in environments that look like clubs or concert halls.
- beams_of_light 4y ago
  I've been reluctant to try getting my coworkers into VR because they'd probably just laugh at me, but a couple of friends and I met up in VR (we're all fully-grown professionals) and it was great. Meetings in VR would be a lot more productive, IMO.
  - waynesonfire 4y ago
    Never tried it, Can you see the micro expressions on your audience faces? Can you draw on a whiteboard with fidelity similar to that of RL chalkboard? Can I take notes?
    - strix_varius 4y ago
      > Can you see the micro expressions on your audience faces? No, but you get an amazing amount of context from their body language > Can you draw on a whiteboard with fidelity similar to that of RL chalkboard? Yes > Can I take notes? I never tried this, but I can imagine several ways to do so (the simplest of which is to just record the meeting & the contents of the whiteboard).
- bsimpson 4y ago
  The idea of being painted as a literal second class citizen if you have lower end hardware is gross, but it's also the natural destination of progressive enhancement if e.g. facial expressions only work with the expensive thing.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Snow Crash is getting closer and closer it seems, the distinction between the rich folks with their outrageous avatars in the inner city and the plebeians who access the 'net through some public terminal which provides them with a nondescript black-and-white avatar - which is not allowed to enter the inner city - is a clear feature of its world.
    - hankman86 4y ago
      It’s the other way around. Wealthy people can opt out of Meta’s VR surveillance apparatus, others cannot.
  - modeless 4y ago
    Many if not most things in life can be improved by spending more money, in ways that give you practical and social advantages. It's not as if VR is unique in that respect.
  - King-Aaron 4y ago
    > The idea of being painted as a literal second class citizen if you have lower end hardware is gross This is true for cars, houses, PC gamers, console gamers, mechanics, chefs, etc etc etc
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      On the Internet, by default, I have no idea how nice your car, house, computer, or food is. We're talking on a website that would comfortably load on 1990s hardware. Meta is just one small corner of this and as such doesn't perhaps deserve particular blame, but it's sad to think about how we've slowly eroded the Internet's fundamentally democratic, equalizing nature.
- magic_hamster 4y ago
  The main reason I don't see it working for meetings is because it's relatively a hassle to put it on and going into meetings I want everything to happen fast and painless. Every delay or extra step is to be avoided. Sometimes you have a series of back to back meetings where things really need to work fast. Besides, haven't tried the Pro but everything else I did try isn't there in terms of comfort. A lot of people wear glasses and it's just a bad experience for them. The last point that seems to be unaccounted for is the flexibility of current voice meetings. You can connect from almost any device anywhere. You can join a meeting from your car. I somehow sense that's going to be a tad problematic with a VR headset.
  - Osmose 4y ago
    Exactly, people show up 5-10 minutes late to meetings where they have to click a single button to join, and we expect them to hook in to a VR setup before joining?
    - exodust 4y ago
      Not to mention that "too many meetings" is a thing many of us complain about. Just because they might be "VR meetings" doesn't take away the feeling that you're having too many meetings.
  - modeless 4y ago
    Quest Pro actually addresses those concerns. The head mount style is miles easier than the Quest 2 strap; it looks much more like PSVR if you've tried that. Putting on PSVR feels more like putting on a hat. It rests more on top of your head and doesn't smash your face. In fact, unlike other VR headsets it looks like Quest Pro doesn't contact your face at all, and leaves plenty of room for glasses. There's no charging cable to plug/unplug, no external tracker, and you don't need the controllers for meetings, so the headset is entirely self-contained. It could literally be as simple as five seconds to pick the headset up off your desk and put it on like a hat and it turns on automatically and you're in. Of course the ultimate idea is you'll be doing your regular work on virtual screens in VR, so you won't even need to don/doff the headset. But I think comfort and battery life and screen resolution will need to improve further for that to be realistic for most people. As for flexibility, Workrooms supports standard video calling just fine. You can join from your laptop or phone and still participate. To the VR participants you appear on a large projection screen, and you see the VR participants using a virtual meeting room camera. So you lose nothing in terms of flexibility.
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  $1800 to ram the concept of physical meetings remotely instead of adapting to the benefits of remote work is a comically steep price that only SV tech bros will consider. Even the NYC finance people blowing that weekly on cocaïne will laugh their asses off at the idea.
seiferteric 4y ago
The hardware looks pretty good. I bought a HP reverb G2 because it had the highest resolution. While not bad, i learned that resolution isn't everything as the picture is pretty blurry anywhere except dead ahead due to the Fresnel lenses, so the new pancake lenses sound promising. I also don't get motion sickness and might be interested in working in VR if the readability is good. My only other hold up is that even at 36 years old and using computers since I was 5, I still don't type properly and do occasionally look down at the keyboard lol. Would be great if the forward facing cameras will allow this.
- williamcotton 4y ago
  Meta Workrooms has passthrough mode for just the keyboard so you can still look down at your fingers when you're typing.
  - AgentME 4y ago
    This feature is surprisingly polished. Your keyboard is tracked by the headset and it renders a high quality model in place of it, and when the headset sees your hands go over the keyboard, it overlays the video of your hands into the scene.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  The Quest 1 and 2 also have fresnel lenses but they're not all that blurry. Sharpest dead ahead sure but it's not terrible. And I wonder if the pancake lenses are really better there. I think god rays will be significantly reduced but edge sharpness is really hard to do with such close focus. The light path at the edges of the LCD to the eye could be twice as long than in the middle.
temp_praneshp 4y ago
>I’ve been a very early adopter of this tech (Kickstarter backer of Oculus), get zero motion sickness Me too! Have you written about your setup anywhere? Are you willing to dump some notes and share?
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
> get zero motion sickness Whatever the opposite of a killer app is called (maybe "app killer"?) this is it. Even if it afflicts a relatively small number of users, it's a serious problem. Besides terrible PR (people less likely to try it because of the risk of a bad experience) it's the fact that any technology that arbitrarily excludes some non-tiny portion of the population is problematic for broad acceptance.
- Firmwarrior 4y ago
  The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. If you power through sim sickness enough, you'll get to a point where you feel like tossing your cookies when you just look at or think about a VR headset. I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options)
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    > The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. Yes. This is absolutely true. Whatever you do: DON'T try to 'fight through it'. As soon as you don't feel well, STOP. Then pick it up later. Soon you will be able to go for a longer time and it'll disappear completely. Make sure your IDP is set correctly. Get an optometrist to check it for you to make sure. Looking crosseyed (unknowingly) really does not help things. If you tried doing it that way you were really doing it wrong. You could indeed develop a negative association to the headset. I had this with the DK1 (Development Kit 1) of the Rift, but this was because it simply had horribly inaccurate 3DOF tracking (not 6DOF as required in the real world), and also a high persistance display. > I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options) It's not. First of all, you have to take it easy like I described. You will accomodate to it much better. Yes some people will never manage it but it's a really small percentage. If you can ride in the back of a car without getting sick, you can do this as long as you take it easy. Also, the experiences Meta is aiming for here don't involve rollercoasters and the like. VR is totally fine if you're moving normally within your free tracked space. The problem starts happening when you move with the stick without actually moving, because the disassociation between the visual and inertial senses. The teleportation option helps a lot. But in a business meeting really you don't have to move around a lot. As long as your motions within that small space are tracked accurately, there will be no motion sickness.
itslennysfault 4y ago
> get zero motion sickness and have a great time working in VR through a virtual desktop Do you not wind up sweaty? Every time I wear a VR headset for more than a few minutes it's .....moist.
- kgwxd 4y ago
- toiletfuneral 4y ago
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  I don't, as long as ambient temperature is below 25 or so degrees C. I'm in Spain so this kinda rules out using it in summer for long. But most of the year it's fine. I have to say the new silicone 'skin' they provided to Quest 2 owners makes the sweatiness a bit worse, but it is easier to clean. And the original Quest 2 material was prone to causing skin irritation so I didn't want to risk it for too long.
- outworlder 4y ago
  The inserts that come with the headset are not very breathable. You could change those. There are small fans that attach to the headset. I've found that they help quite a bit.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
What headset are you using? This is the setup I'd like to try rather than buying new monitors.
barbariangrunge 4y ago
The main sticking point for me is that my real desktop/workspace has much better privacy than these new virtual ones
- nomel 4y ago
  What do you mean by that? How does a physical display on your desk provide better privacy than a physical display a few inches from you eyes? It’s not some shared/cloud display.
  - shubb 4y ago
    When you use a meta headset, the cameras on the outside film the environment around you. In order to use for example the gesture recognition feature, you consent for that video to be sent to meta as an AI training input. Although your boss, today, doesn't get extra information, you are inviting a faceless organisation to collect hugely intrusive data about your home, much as if you install an Alexa or Google home. How much privacy we sacrifice for convenience and features is a decision we all need to make - and it's a difficult decision because I actually don't care if facebook have photos of my messy desk. But I would care if they got hacked an my credit card got leaked, very practically, or if an employer provided unit fed my HR telemetry about my stress levels or how much of the time I spent pooping. That would not be an acceptable tradeoff and it is possible.
    - nomel 4y ago
      > In order to use for example the gesture recognition feature, you consent for that video to be sent to meta as an AI training input. Then don’t consent to the 10ft tall disclaimer, if it exists. I never use hand tracking, and work in VR just fine. I imagine that need will go away once they have enough training data. The hand tracking has improved tremendously since launch. It sounds like you believe there are data leaks that aren’t being disclosed in the privacy policy. You should contact a lawyer if you have insider information on this.
onion2k 4y ago
I think this is the only way companies will be able to keep remote-friendly polices and stay competitive with product. People have built billion dollar companies entirely remotely without VR (eg Gitlab), so why will it become a requirement in the future? What change will happen to make it a necessity?

modeless 4y ago

There are a lot of people pooh-poohing this who haven't tried a meeting in Workrooms. I was skeptical going in, even as a VR early adopter, and it exceeded my expectations by a long way. It feels a whole lot more like a real meeting than a Zoom call does. I don't know if it's enough better for me to choose it over Zoom in everyday use, but this was on Quest 2. A meeting where everyone is wearing Quest Pro will be significantly better. I expect that the combination of the better screen/lenses, better comfort, much better AR passthrough, and of course the new eye/face tracking will make for a very compelling experience.

sneak 4y ago
Is agreeing to the third party abusive Meta/Facebook TOS going to be a requirement of employment with third parties then? Will users be permitted to create accounts only for work? If not, when your personal account gets banned or disabled, will you be unable to work?
- modeless 4y ago
  The Facebook login requirement is gone. If you are banned from Facebook you can use Quest, no problem. Yes, you can create a separate work account. In fact, Workplace accounts are separate already.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    This is what kept me from trying Quest despite being a VR superfan. Once they finally announced the account change I took the plunge and picked one up I just didn't want to risk losing hundreds of dollars' worth of games because Facebook's retarded algorithms decided they don't like some meme I posted years ago. (Actually, Facebook's moderation has kept me from using it for anything other than posting family photos and clicking the "like" button on others' photos.. it's just too risky that I'll cross a line and get deleted)
  - numpad0 4y ago
    I’ve heard they still maintain real name basis for the Meta login requirement though…
    - Youden 4y ago
      My Meta account doesn't have my real name and I don't recall anything requesting I add it.
      - sneak 4y ago
        Do something to get it in trouble and see if you can get back in without showing ID.
    - agar 4y ago
      That is incorrect. From https://www.meta.com/help/accounts/set-up-meta-account/#:~:text=Email%3A%20You%20can%20only%20create,but%20it%20is%20not%20required https://www.meta.com/help/accounts/set-up-meta-account/#:~:t.... > Email: You can only create one Meta account per email address. First and last name: We recommend using your real name in case you need to recover your account or manage your store purchases, but it is not required.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    Is this a general change? My Rift was nice but it has been gathering dust since that change, it would be cool to hear they've relented.
hiq 4y ago
> It feels a whole lot more like a real meeting than a Zoom call does. I haven't had the chance to try it myself, so can you explain how it's better? I feel like the main problem with remote meetings is the audio latency. You cannot speak as you would naturally, you'd speak in turn instead. I'm guessing VR allows you to give and receive visual cues about this so it might be better, is this what you had in mind?
- modeless 4y ago
  The audio latency is better. You're not sending or receiving HD video so your connection is less loaded and the audio doesn't ever have to be delayed to synchronize with video. And VR devices are better optimized for low latency than your average system. Visual cues for turn taking while speaking work better, as you mentioned. Spatial audio is awesome for locating speakers and differentiating multiple speakers at once. Hand gestures work better; you can actually point at things in a shared 3D space.
  - nwienert 4y ago
    People just won’t put on world-occluding headsets to talk to cartoons, end of the day. Only in bubble-land does this pass the smell test imo.
    - mooreds 4y ago
      I remember swearing up and down that I didn't need a phone I could carry everywhere with me. This was in the late 1990s/early 2000s. What communication was so important that it couldn't wait until I was home, next to my land line and answering machine?
      - nwienert 4y ago
        Phones work because they are so simple, unobtrusive and easy to position and use contextually. They are the argument against VR.
mbreese 4y ago
> enough better for me to choose it over Zoom in everyday use It doesn’t have to be better than Zoom. It has to be $1500 better than Zoom. Per employee. I’m in agreement with you — I like Immersed and I like the idea of VR meetings. But will people/employers opt for this over a hybrid on-site/remote system? How do VR meetings work when half the team is onsite in a conference zoom? I don’t want to put on a VR a headset to talk to the coworker sitting physically next to me in a conference room. Sadly, I see this as useful only for remote-only teams. As one of a handful of remote people on my team, it doesn’t seem like a workable option, even if I already like/use VR.
- zachthewf 4y ago
  $1500 is nothing if it makes remote collaboration competitive with IRL collaboration.
  - mbreese 4y ago
    But how often do you have exclusively remote collaboration? I’m sure for many people that is common. It’s not for me. Normally I’m talking with a few people remote in zoom and the rest of the team on site in a conference room. For remote exclusive groups, this makes sense. But does it make sense for businesses to buy this for all of their employees — if they have a hybrid workforce? I would expect most employers will or are shifting towards a hybrid setup. How many remote-only employers are there? Is it enough of a market to make this more than a gimmick? I get VR for personal use. I get it for one-to-one communication. But I’m skeptical for business communication.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - girvo 4y ago
      I work at a place that technically has an office, but 99% of the time only a single person is in it during the week, and 80% of my team now lives across the world (they started here in Aus but moved) -- we're as close to "remote only" as you can get, but my boss and I had a laugh at the Quest Pro (despite us both being VR users!) today when it was announced. Even for remote-only work, it's just not there yet, and not at $2500 AUD per device. Maybe if the next version has a much higher resolution for better text rendering on N virtual screens, so they can have dual-purpose.
kypro 4y ago
I tried out Horizon Worlds recently and I was honestly amazed by how immersive it was. I genuinely felt like I was out socialising with people while sat at home. I can definitely see the use cases, especially as the technology improves. If there were live VR music events that me and my friends in different cities and countries could all attend to feel together I imagine I'd use it quite often.
- gernb 4y ago
  Aren't there several companies that do that ? Maybe https://wavexr.com/ https://wavexr.com/ for example?
- Foobar8568 4y ago
  This comment reminds me my first times in geocities chatrooms, talking with people all over the world. Welcome to the future.
- exodust 4y ago
  > live VR music events How does that work? Do you mean the band members are avatars too? Or are you talking about a DJ pressing play, and you're in VR space with your friends basically listening to a playlist? Or are you in a VR cinema with your friends, watching a live stream of a real band?
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    It's done a few different ways, I don't think the perfect solution has been found yet. DJs or bands have performed as avatars by using full body tracking. More commonly, the performer will have a camera on them and the video is displayed on a screen in the VR event. They can also see what's happening in the event so it's possible for them to interact with the crowd. As headsets become lighter and more comfortable and FBT gets easier with inside out camera tracking or better trackers; performing as an avatar will become more common. The events are usually in environments that look like clubs or concert halls.
beams_of_light 4y ago
I've been reluctant to try getting my coworkers into VR because they'd probably just laugh at me, but a couple of friends and I met up in VR (we're all fully-grown professionals) and it was great. Meetings in VR would be a lot more productive, IMO.
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  Never tried it, Can you see the micro expressions on your audience faces? Can you draw on a whiteboard with fidelity similar to that of RL chalkboard? Can I take notes?
  - strix_varius 4y ago
    > Can you see the micro expressions on your audience faces? No, but you get an amazing amount of context from their body language > Can you draw on a whiteboard with fidelity similar to that of RL chalkboard? Yes > Can I take notes? I never tried this, but I can imagine several ways to do so (the simplest of which is to just record the meeting & the contents of the whiteboard).
bsimpson 4y ago
The idea of being painted as a literal second class citizen if you have lower end hardware is gross, but it's also the natural destination of progressive enhancement if e.g. facial expressions only work with the expensive thing.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  Snow Crash is getting closer and closer it seems, the distinction between the rich folks with their outrageous avatars in the inner city and the plebeians who access the 'net through some public terminal which provides them with a nondescript black-and-white avatar - which is not allowed to enter the inner city - is a clear feature of its world.
  - hankman86 4y ago
    It’s the other way around. Wealthy people can opt out of Meta’s VR surveillance apparatus, others cannot.
- modeless 4y ago
  Many if not most things in life can be improved by spending more money, in ways that give you practical and social advantages. It's not as if VR is unique in that respect.
- King-Aaron 4y ago
  > The idea of being painted as a literal second class citizen if you have lower end hardware is gross This is true for cars, houses, PC gamers, console gamers, mechanics, chefs, etc etc etc
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    On the Internet, by default, I have no idea how nice your car, house, computer, or food is. We're talking on a website that would comfortably load on 1990s hardware. Meta is just one small corner of this and as such doesn't perhaps deserve particular blame, but it's sad to think about how we've slowly eroded the Internet's fundamentally democratic, equalizing nature.
magic_hamster 4y ago
The main reason I don't see it working for meetings is because it's relatively a hassle to put it on and going into meetings I want everything to happen fast and painless. Every delay or extra step is to be avoided. Sometimes you have a series of back to back meetings where things really need to work fast. Besides, haven't tried the Pro but everything else I did try isn't there in terms of comfort. A lot of people wear glasses and it's just a bad experience for them. The last point that seems to be unaccounted for is the flexibility of current voice meetings. You can connect from almost any device anywhere. You can join a meeting from your car. I somehow sense that's going to be a tad problematic with a VR headset.
- Osmose 4y ago
  Exactly, people show up 5-10 minutes late to meetings where they have to click a single button to join, and we expect them to hook in to a VR setup before joining?
  - exodust 4y ago
    Not to mention that "too many meetings" is a thing many of us complain about. Just because they might be "VR meetings" doesn't take away the feeling that you're having too many meetings.
- modeless 4y ago
  Quest Pro actually addresses those concerns. The head mount style is miles easier than the Quest 2 strap; it looks much more like PSVR if you've tried that. Putting on PSVR feels more like putting on a hat. It rests more on top of your head and doesn't smash your face. In fact, unlike other VR headsets it looks like Quest Pro doesn't contact your face at all, and leaves plenty of room for glasses. There's no charging cable to plug/unplug, no external tracker, and you don't need the controllers for meetings, so the headset is entirely self-contained. It could literally be as simple as five seconds to pick the headset up off your desk and put it on like a hat and it turns on automatically and you're in. Of course the ultimate idea is you'll be doing your regular work on virtual screens in VR, so you won't even need to don/doff the headset. But I think comfort and battery life and screen resolution will need to improve further for that to be realistic for most people. As for flexibility, Workrooms supports standard video calling just fine. You can join from your laptop or phone and still participate. To the VR participants you appear on a large projection screen, and you see the VR participants using a virtual meeting room camera. So you lose nothing in terms of flexibility.
ohgodplsno 4y ago
$1800 to ram the concept of physical meetings remotely instead of adapting to the benefits of remote work is a comically steep price that only SV tech bros will consider. Even the NYC finance people blowing that weekly on cocaïne will laugh their asses off at the idea.

seiferteric 4y ago

The hardware looks pretty good. I bought a HP reverb G2 because it had the highest resolution. While not bad, i learned that resolution isn't everything as the picture is pretty blurry anywhere except dead ahead due to the Fresnel lenses, so the new pancake lenses sound promising. I also don't get motion sickness and might be interested in working in VR if the readability is good. My only other hold up is that even at 36 years old and using computers since I was 5, I still don't type properly and do occasionally look down at the keyboard lol. Would be great if the forward facing cameras will allow this.

williamcotton 4y ago
Meta Workrooms has passthrough mode for just the keyboard so you can still look down at your fingers when you're typing.
- AgentME 4y ago
  This feature is surprisingly polished. Your keyboard is tracked by the headset and it renders a high quality model in place of it, and when the headset sees your hands go over the keyboard, it overlays the video of your hands into the scene.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
The Quest 1 and 2 also have fresnel lenses but they're not all that blurry. Sharpest dead ahead sure but it's not terrible. And I wonder if the pancake lenses are really better there. I think god rays will be significantly reduced but edge sharpness is really hard to do with such close focus. The light path at the edges of the LCD to the eye could be twice as long than in the middle.

temp_praneshp 4y ago

>I’ve been a very early adopter of this tech (Kickstarter backer of Oculus), get zero motion sickness Me too! Have you written about your setup anywhere? Are you willing to dump some notes and share?

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

> get zero motion sickness Whatever the opposite of a killer app is called (maybe "app killer"?) this is it. Even if it afflicts a relatively small number of users, it's a serious problem. Besides terrible PR (people less likely to try it because of the risk of a bad experience) it's the fact that any technology that arbitrarily excludes some non-tiny portion of the population is problematic for broad acceptance.

Firmwarrior 4y ago
The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. If you power through sim sickness enough, you'll get to a point where you feel like tossing your cookies when you just look at or think about a VR headset. I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options)
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  > The worst part is that if you try and fight through the sickness, you'll actually condition yourself to get sicker. Yes. This is absolutely true. Whatever you do: DON'T try to 'fight through it'. As soon as you don't feel well, STOP. Then pick it up later. Soon you will be able to go for a longer time and it'll disappear completely. Make sure your IDP is set correctly. Get an optometrist to check it for you to make sure. Looking crosseyed (unknowingly) really does not help things. If you tried doing it that way you were really doing it wrong. You could indeed develop a negative association to the headset. I had this with the DK1 (Development Kit 1) of the Rift, but this was because it simply had horribly inaccurate 3DOF tracking (not 6DOF as required in the real world), and also a high persistance display. > I think it's become a major problem in the VR game market. Everyone except the super hard core has been burned away by sim sickness, so now all the remaining fans demand intense but nausea-inducing experiences with no comfort options (or too-easily disabled comfort options) It's not. First of all, you have to take it easy like I described. You will accomodate to it much better. Yes some people will never manage it but it's a really small percentage. If you can ride in the back of a car without getting sick, you can do this as long as you take it easy. Also, the experiences Meta is aiming for here don't involve rollercoasters and the like. VR is totally fine if you're moving normally within your free tracked space. The problem starts happening when you move with the stick without actually moving, because the disassociation between the visual and inertial senses. The teleportation option helps a lot. But in a business meeting really you don't have to move around a lot. As long as your motions within that small space are tracked accurately, there will be no motion sickness.

itslennysfault 4y ago

> get zero motion sickness and have a great time working in VR through a virtual desktop Do you not wind up sweaty? Every time I wear a VR headset for more than a few minutes it's .....moist.

kgwxd 4y ago
toiletfuneral 4y ago
GekkePrutser 4y ago
I don't, as long as ambient temperature is below 25 or so degrees C. I'm in Spain so this kinda rules out using it in summer for long. But most of the year it's fine. I have to say the new silicone 'skin' they provided to Quest 2 owners makes the sweatiness a bit worse, but it is easier to clean. And the original Quest 2 material was prone to causing skin irritation so I didn't want to risk it for too long.
outworlder 4y ago
The inserts that come with the headset are not very breathable. You could change those. There are small fans that attach to the headset. I've found that they help quite a bit.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

What headset are you using? This is the setup I'd like to try rather than buying new monitors.

barbariangrunge 4y ago

The main sticking point for me is that my real desktop/workspace has much better privacy than these new virtual ones

nomel 4y ago
What do you mean by that? How does a physical display on your desk provide better privacy than a physical display a few inches from you eyes? It’s not some shared/cloud display.
- shubb 4y ago
  When you use a meta headset, the cameras on the outside film the environment around you. In order to use for example the gesture recognition feature, you consent for that video to be sent to meta as an AI training input. Although your boss, today, doesn't get extra information, you are inviting a faceless organisation to collect hugely intrusive data about your home, much as if you install an Alexa or Google home. How much privacy we sacrifice for convenience and features is a decision we all need to make - and it's a difficult decision because I actually don't care if facebook have photos of my messy desk. But I would care if they got hacked an my credit card got leaked, very practically, or if an employer provided unit fed my HR telemetry about my stress levels or how much of the time I spent pooping. That would not be an acceptable tradeoff and it is possible.
  - nomel 4y ago
    > In order to use for example the gesture recognition feature, you consent for that video to be sent to meta as an AI training input. Then don’t consent to the 10ft tall disclaimer, if it exists. I never use hand tracking, and work in VR just fine. I imagine that need will go away once they have enough training data. The hand tracking has improved tremendously since launch. It sounds like you believe there are data leaks that aren’t being disclosed in the privacy policy. You should contact a lawyer if you have insider information on this.

onion2k 4y ago

I think this is the only way companies will be able to keep remote-friendly polices and stay competitive with product. People have built billion dollar companies entirely remotely without VR (eg Gitlab), so why will it become a requirement in the future? What change will happen to make it a necessity?