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My CS classes in college were literally 98% male and 98% white and Asian. You are talking about a slippery slope to distract from the obvious existing problem.

My CS classes in college were literally 98% male and 98% white and Asian. You are talking about a slippery slope to distract from the obvious existing problem. There might be a slippery slope in the future, I agree, but that doesn't mean there isn't an active problem now!

badpun 4y ago
Why is that a problem exactly? What problem is that causing to society? Mind you, there's plenty of women in tech (and often in business or managerial positions, directing those white and asian programmers), they just don't go through the CS degree. I personally don't blame them, my CS degree at least was really super boring and mostly just a way to get an easy and well paying job. And men care about both money and technical things much more than women, so it's natural than they flock to CS.
- peter422 4y ago
  And Men obviously care about being doctors and lawyers more than women, too, of course for the same reasons. 60 years ago >90% of lawyers and doctors were Men and because the desire to be a doctor or a lawyer is mostly dictated by a person's gender those statistics haven't changed at all!
  - badpun 4y ago
    > And Men obviously care about being doctors and lawyers more than women, too, of course for the same reasons. ... Yes? At least in countries such as US, where these people in those professions can make large amounts of money. In my country (Poland), up to very recently, doctors were poorly paid and thus large number of doctors were women. > 60 years ago >90% of lawyers and doctors were Men and because the desire to be a doctor or a lawyer is mostly dictated by a person's gender those statistics haven't changed at all! It isn't as clear cut as with the CS, because women (on average) may be put off by the high competetiveness and poor life quality of law/medicine, but they are also drawn (on average) by the fact that in those fields you work with people. Whereas, in CS degree, there's literally nothing for them (on average).
  - invalidOrTaken 4y ago
    The Last Psychiatrist: https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/01/no_self-respecting_woman_would.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/01/no_self-respecting_w... >I don't want to be cynical, but boy oh boy is it hard not to observe that at the very moment in our history when we have the most women in the Senate, Congress is perceived to be pathetic, bickering, easily manipulated and powerless, and I'll risk the blowback and say that those are all stereotypes of women. Easy, HuffPo, I know it's not causal, I am saying the reverse: that if some field keeps the trappings of power but loses actual power, women enter it in droves and men abandon it like the Roanoke Colony. Again we must ask the question: if power seeking men aren't running for Senate, where did they go? Meanwhile all the lobbyists and Wall Street bankers are men, isn't that odd?
- fzeroracer 4y ago
  > And men care about both money and technical things much more than women Stop this. These arguments are not only making massive assumptions but they are historically and factually wrong. In the history of computing and computer science women formed a large chunk of computer science graduates and programmers. This decline started in 1984 when the culture and advertising shifted to market computers and such as being for boys. They were the pioneers of the computer science world and in an era where things were incredibly technical without the resources we take for granted.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    >they are historically and factually wrong No, the money part is pretty accurate historically. Almost every field with high income historically attracted far more men than women once it became public knowledge. Job status and money are very disproportionately more important to men.
    - peter422 4y ago
      Which is why doctors and lawyers, two of the historically most highly paid and high status jobs, now graduate more women than men. Or wait a second, I guess it isn't public knowledge doctors make a lot of money.
      - dijit 4y ago
        This is overly hostile and I don't really want to engage with it because of that. To answer the question as coldly as I can: 1) Women are graduating from nearly all University programmes more than men.[0] 2) The role of Doctor is not as highly paid or prestigious as it used to be, at least in Europe.[1] [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behind-the-growing-gap-between-men-and-women-in-college-completion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behin... [1]: https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-you-like-to-work/sweden/opportunities https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-y... ; cites a 70k average where a project manager will make an average of 99k: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM1136_KO10,25.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager...
origin_path 4y ago
That's not a problem unless you are either racist or sexist, in which case a preference for people based on their race or sex would make it a problem. But for everyone else, it's just whatever it is.
nonethewiser 4y ago
>My CS classes in college were literally 98% male and 98% white and Asian. > You are talking about a slippery slope to distract from the obvious existing problem. I dont see a problem.
randomdata 4y ago
> My CS classes in college were literally 98% male and 98% white and Asian. Most certainly. Anyone else will get paid to learn CS on the job so it would be rather silly of them to spend their own dime in college. There is no free lunch here. If you strive for diversity in the workplace it is going to disappear from other places.

badpun 4y ago

Why is that a problem exactly? What problem is that causing to society? Mind you, there's plenty of women in tech (and often in business or managerial positions, directing those white and asian programmers), they just don't go through the CS degree. I personally don't blame them, my CS degree at least was really super boring and mostly just a way to get an easy and well paying job. And men care about both money and technical things much more than women, so it's natural than they flock to CS.

peter422 4y ago
And Men obviously care about being doctors and lawyers more than women, too, of course for the same reasons. 60 years ago >90% of lawyers and doctors were Men and because the desire to be a doctor or a lawyer is mostly dictated by a person's gender those statistics haven't changed at all!
- badpun 4y ago
  > And Men obviously care about being doctors and lawyers more than women, too, of course for the same reasons. ... Yes? At least in countries such as US, where these people in those professions can make large amounts of money. In my country (Poland), up to very recently, doctors were poorly paid and thus large number of doctors were women. > 60 years ago >90% of lawyers and doctors were Men and because the desire to be a doctor or a lawyer is mostly dictated by a person's gender those statistics haven't changed at all! It isn't as clear cut as with the CS, because women (on average) may be put off by the high competetiveness and poor life quality of law/medicine, but they are also drawn (on average) by the fact that in those fields you work with people. Whereas, in CS degree, there's literally nothing for them (on average).
- invalidOrTaken 4y ago
  The Last Psychiatrist: https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/01/no_self-respecting_woman_would.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/01/no_self-respecting_w... >I don't want to be cynical, but boy oh boy is it hard not to observe that at the very moment in our history when we have the most women in the Senate, Congress is perceived to be pathetic, bickering, easily manipulated and powerless, and I'll risk the blowback and say that those are all stereotypes of women. Easy, HuffPo, I know it's not causal, I am saying the reverse: that if some field keeps the trappings of power but loses actual power, women enter it in droves and men abandon it like the Roanoke Colony. Again we must ask the question: if power seeking men aren't running for Senate, where did they go? Meanwhile all the lobbyists and Wall Street bankers are men, isn't that odd?
fzeroracer 4y ago
> And men care about both money and technical things much more than women Stop this. These arguments are not only making massive assumptions but they are historically and factually wrong. In the history of computing and computer science women formed a large chunk of computer science graduates and programmers. This decline started in 1984 when the culture and advertising shifted to market computers and such as being for boys. They were the pioneers of the computer science world and in an era where things were incredibly technical without the resources we take for granted.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  >they are historically and factually wrong No, the money part is pretty accurate historically. Almost every field with high income historically attracted far more men than women once it became public knowledge. Job status and money are very disproportionately more important to men.
  - peter422 4y ago
    Which is why doctors and lawyers, two of the historically most highly paid and high status jobs, now graduate more women than men. Or wait a second, I guess it isn't public knowledge doctors make a lot of money.
    - dijit 4y ago
      This is overly hostile and I don't really want to engage with it because of that. To answer the question as coldly as I can: 1) Women are graduating from nearly all University programmes more than men.[0] 2) The role of Doctor is not as highly paid or prestigious as it used to be, at least in Europe.[1] [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behind-the-growing-gap-between-men-and-women-in-college-completion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behin... [1]: https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-you-like-to-work/sweden/opportunities https://www.paragona.com/healthcare-jobseekers/where-would-y... ; cites a 70k average where a project manager will make an average of 99k: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager-salary-SRCH_IL.0,9_IM1136_KO10,25.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/stockholm-project-manager...

origin_path 4y ago

That's not a problem unless you are either racist or sexist, in which case a preference for people based on their race or sex would make it a problem. But for everyone else, it's just whatever it is.

nonethewiser 4y ago

>My CS classes in college were literally 98% male and 98% white and Asian. > You are talking about a slippery slope to distract from the obvious existing problem. I dont see a problem.

randomdata 4y ago

> My CS classes in college were literally 98% male and 98% white and Asian. Most certainly. Anyone else will get paid to learn CS on the job so it would be rather silly of them to spend their own dime in college. There is no free lunch here. If you strive for diversity in the workplace it is going to disappear from other places.