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> Sentience just happens to be an evolutionary trait that was beneficial to us ... but that isn't really how evolution works. Actually that is how evolution wo
by bluekeybox 15y ago
> Sentience just happens to be an evolutionary trait that was beneficial to us ... but that isn't really how evolution works.
Actually that is how evolution works. Evolution results in species acquiring traits that are beneficial to them. Of course you could make a counter-case that perhaps sentience is only beneficial to us in particular, and not so much to other species --
To which I would completely disagree. There is this fascinating, relatively new theory of how humans became sentient. Previously (1960s) it was thought that humans became sentient either somehow out of the blue or due to having to construct tools etc., which then allowed them to organize into groups. The new theory, on the other hand, claims that high intelligence (and by extension sentience) is an inevitable consequence of living within a particular type of group -- largely the type of group that many primates live in (the original studies were done on baboons), though this is not limited to primates.
The idea is that if you are a member of a group where grooming behavior, alliance-making, and status-related interactions are common, you benefit tremendously (in a reproductive sense) from possessing a "theory of mind" capable of making predictions about the actions of others that are at least a few percent more accurate than those of your peers. The way it works is a bit like the stock market -- all you need is to beat the market average. So this "theory of mind" -- being preoccupied with what others think -- is actually claimed to be a runaway effect of the intelligence "arms race" which always occurs among animals living within that type of group. Now, sentience is merely a theory of mind applied to self.
I fully expect that within the next 10 million years at least two other mammal species will become sentient, if we humans don't make them extinct that is... Anyone willing to make a long bet?
- daliusd 15y agoI heard theory that there will be no other sentient creatures on Earth because humans will destroy them. I read this theory from article about Birutė Galdikas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birut%C4%97_Galdikas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birut%C4%97_Galdikas) who is studying orangutans. Let's not forget neanderthals as well in this context.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- bluekeybox 15y ago> there will be no other sentient creatures on Earth because humans will destroy them Thus perpetuating the false notion that sentience is only beneficial to Homo sapiens. Oh, the irony.
- electromagnetic 15y agoActually given that dogs score better than chimps, wolves and human infants in tests of social cognition would lend credence to the fact that humans are actually inadvertently creating sentience. Similarly dogs are the only non-primate species to look at the right side of a persons face to gauge their emotion and state, but unlike primates and humans, they don't do this with other species or dogs. Evidence points to dogs having a limited theory of mind, in that they can actively be deceitful, meaning they can understand the perceptions of other animals. Not to mention, dogs are already known to have the ability to rationalise, empathise and have abstract learning abilities. They're capable of the whole range of human emotions, including clinical depression, melancholy, anger, rage, etc. Beyond that, they're capable of empathetic sadness and anger. They also display the same ability as many of the great apes to mourn their dead, but notably dead humans. Orangutans are largely being made extinct for the same reason that humans have made wolves and tried to make numerous other species such as foxes, rabbits, etc. extinct. In that they're pose a risk to our economic livelihoods. Orangutans are dying because of deforestation and poaching. Wolves evolved into a evolutionary niche as dogs, and as dogs have become as wide spread a species as humans and have evolved far beyond their ancestors. To the point that they actually rank above primates in certain tests of cognition and social behaviour - notably the two behaviours that are attributed as key elements of human evolution to sentience.
- ComputerGuru 15y agoHaving lived with the "best friends" of humans (cats and dogs) for many years, I am no longer sure what "sentience" is because I find the difference between us and them in everything to be a matter of degree. We're _better_ at being 'sentient' than they are, but I can't find anything that we do that they don't. I'm serious here. You totally hit the nail on the head when you talk about anger and empathy. They can learn, they can feel, they can teach their offspring, they can empathize, they can demonstrate their emotional and physical needs, and they can communicate both with us and amongst themselves. They know right from wrong (keeping in mind that in reality there are no moral absolutes and right and wrong very much relative concepts even to humans, and even on what we consider to be an axiomatic basis). What's left? I honestly would like to know.
- danssig 15y agoWhy are animals that are considered older (e.g. Alligators) actually dumber than the younger ones?
- danssig 15y agoThanks for the downvote whoever. Sorry I upset you by calling out some evo-phsyc nonsense.