4 ms·

So you're saying that people are addicted drugs because they are homeless, they are not homeless because they are addicted to drugs?

jrm4 4y ago
No, and this is such a weird and bad logical jump, and really shows the limitations of strict logical thinking and lack appreciated second-order type stuff. Rich or middle class addicts still have houses to get high in.
- ameister14 4y ago
  It's anecdotal, but I've definitely had rich friends get high in the open. Even when not homeless, there are a lot of reasons to hide an addiction from the people in your home and instead seek out locations where you can get high.
- Acutulus 4y ago
  Agreed. In my moderately sized southern city of 200k, we logged/censused 576 homeless a few months ago. Of course these individuals were the ones able to be counted; there's likely more. So roughly a quarter of a percent per captia. As with most US cities of this size and economic demographic we have a few areas where those without housing tend to congregate. Pains me and I wish I could help more than I do. And from what I have seen in my many decades of living here, these areas are totally devoid of this "open air drug market" characteristic. Not to say transactions don't happen they most certainly do, but that's true of every square foot of any US city, and the people in these places shield their behaviors from public eyes as well as anyone else that procures such things. My city is experiencing a staggering increase in violence this past year at a seemingly disproportionately faster rate than other nearby metro areas if my napkin math holds true and yet none of that violence is noted as occurring at these areas I'm describing. I think that's worth noting too. The interplay of homelessness, mental health, drug dependency, economic struggle and societal rejection is a very complicated and interwoven problem. It's disappointing to hear that there are individuals who feel so self assured in the sources of these problems when it's evident that the qualities of these problems widely differ from place to place.
kadoban 4y ago
Both are true to different extents and in different cases. Say you're living on the streets, mentally ill or just unhappy due to circumstances. Are drugs, a way to temporarily escape your current pain, going to be more or less tempting?
cpdean 4y ago
You can have both, and they can create a feedback loop that guarantees someone will never be able to get out. A more general example of this is scarcity mindset where the condition of not having enough of something causes someone to be poor at managing that resource [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity:_Why_Having_Too_Little_Means_So_Much https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity:_Why_Having_Too_Littl...
InitialLastName 4y ago
There's an alternate conclusion (which seems a more sympathetic and obvious read to me) that people who would do drugs and have nowhere private they are allowed to be end up doing drugs in public. I'm sure the cause/effect between homelessness and drug addiction is somewhat more complicated (and two-way; I'm confident that I'd be more likely to be an addict if I were homeless).
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > people who would do drugs and have nowhere private they are allowed to be end up doing drugs in public I think there is delineation between public drug use and open drug scenes. The latter is concentrated.
- jrm4 4y ago
  I don't understand how what you just said isn't painfully obvious to all.
manholio 4y ago
Both are probably true, some people get homeless due to addiction, and lack of a home keeps them relapsing, while also creating a social environment where other types of homeless persons - the mentally or physically disabled, elders, evacuees etc. - can get into drugs. For a dealer, a dense community of chronic addicts is a cashcow, a market they can serve with much lower risk vs. catering to suburban teenage parties.
AlexTWithBeard 4y ago
It's just if you're not homeless, your drug scenes won't be open.
- jrm4 4y ago
  Lol, it's LITERALLY just this. There is 100% nothing else to see here. This whole conversation is so wild to me.

jrm4 4y ago

No, and this is such a weird and bad logical jump, and really shows the limitations of strict logical thinking and lack appreciated second-order type stuff. Rich or middle class addicts still have houses to get high in.

ameister14 4y ago
It's anecdotal, but I've definitely had rich friends get high in the open. Even when not homeless, there are a lot of reasons to hide an addiction from the people in your home and instead seek out locations where you can get high.
Acutulus 4y ago
Agreed. In my moderately sized southern city of 200k, we logged/censused 576 homeless a few months ago. Of course these individuals were the ones able to be counted; there's likely more. So roughly a quarter of a percent per captia. As with most US cities of this size and economic demographic we have a few areas where those without housing tend to congregate. Pains me and I wish I could help more than I do. And from what I have seen in my many decades of living here, these areas are totally devoid of this "open air drug market" characteristic. Not to say transactions don't happen they most certainly do, but that's true of every square foot of any US city, and the people in these places shield their behaviors from public eyes as well as anyone else that procures such things. My city is experiencing a staggering increase in violence this past year at a seemingly disproportionately faster rate than other nearby metro areas if my napkin math holds true and yet none of that violence is noted as occurring at these areas I'm describing. I think that's worth noting too. The interplay of homelessness, mental health, drug dependency, economic struggle and societal rejection is a very complicated and interwoven problem. It's disappointing to hear that there are individuals who feel so self assured in the sources of these problems when it's evident that the qualities of these problems widely differ from place to place.

kadoban 4y ago

Both are true to different extents and in different cases. Say you're living on the streets, mentally ill or just unhappy due to circumstances. Are drugs, a way to temporarily escape your current pain, going to be more or less tempting?

cpdean 4y ago

You can have both, and they can create a feedback loop that guarantees someone will never be able to get out. A more general example of this is scarcity mindset where the condition of not having enough of something causes someone to be poor at managing that resource [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity:_Why_Having_Too_Little_Means_So_Much https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity:_Why_Having_Too_Littl...

InitialLastName 4y ago

There's an alternate conclusion (which seems a more sympathetic and obvious read to me) that people who would do drugs and have nowhere private they are allowed to be end up doing drugs in public. I'm sure the cause/effect between homelessness and drug addiction is somewhat more complicated (and two-way; I'm confident that I'd be more likely to be an addict if I were homeless).

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> people who would do drugs and have nowhere private they are allowed to be end up doing drugs in public I think there is delineation between public drug use and open drug scenes. The latter is concentrated.
jrm4 4y ago
I don't understand how what you just said isn't painfully obvious to all.

manholio 4y ago

Both are probably true, some people get homeless due to addiction, and lack of a home keeps them relapsing, while also creating a social environment where other types of homeless persons - the mentally or physically disabled, elders, evacuees etc. - can get into drugs. For a dealer, a dense community of chronic addicts is a cashcow, a market they can serve with much lower risk vs. catering to suburban teenage parties.

AlexTWithBeard 4y ago

It's just if you're not homeless, your drug scenes won't be open.

jrm4 4y ago
Lol, it's LITERALLY just this. There is 100% nothing else to see here. This whole conversation is so wild to me.