7 ms·

Is a cup of coffee (with/without milk) outside of the 8-hour window considered a breach of TRE?

hannob 4y ago
The common wisdom is usually that black coffee is ok, as is anything without or with barely any calories.
ubercore 4y ago
Coffee has a tiny amount of calories, but I've always seen people say it's allowed if you're doing TRE. If you set up your 8 hour window well though, it's probably not a huge deal to skip coffee outside the feeding window, if you're worried?
ddorian43 4y ago
I think depends on why you fast. I've used https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast/ https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast/ and https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast-part-ii/ https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast-part-ii/
manmal 4y ago
I‘d say it depends whether drinking coffee triggers insulin release for you, or other growth factors like mTOR. According to a quick search, coffee actually seems to decrease mTOR - that would be ideal for fasting. Milk OTOH is ideal for promoting mTOR (babies need to grow fast), so I‘d avoid milk during a fasting window.
Darmody 4y ago
To me, anything beyond water breaks the fast. That doesn't mean you can't have coffee or a cup of tea, but I wouldn't put milk in it because that's literally food, with many calories, macro and micronutrients, etc.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  I recall seeing on HN someone reporting that even bits of toothpaste from toothbrushing trigger the relevant body response for them. How do you tell/measure whether something breaks the fast for you?
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    The Islamic standard is easy: nothing should pass through your lips when fasting. No water, no smoking, no toothpaste, and if you're really strict you can't even spit.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      why is it relevant to a medical conversation?
  - Darmody 4y ago
    I don't care that much when I fast. I simply drink water and move on with my life.
  - wkearney99 4y ago
    "count", versus actual, measurable metabolic change? Fringe dieting schemes only made worse by anecdotal 'evidence'.
  - ambicapter 4y ago
    I think some people use glucose monitors to monitor their insulin response.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    You mean you don't collect data about yourself and your biological processes every second of every day to hyperoptimize your existence? What are you doing on HN?
lm28469 4y ago
I skip breakfast and lunch but drink coffee/tea. It's not about being perfect, do what works for you in the long run, a cup of coffee will always be better than a donut / milk & cereals / a full english breakfast when it comes to calories and insulin response
- matwood 4y ago
  > It's not about being perfect This. I've been doing TRF for years. The only thing I have in the morning is black coffee, with an occasional splash of milk. Diet and exercise is all about doing things for the long term where consistency trumps almost all the other details.
  - maxrev17 4y ago
    This is the absolute key.Following sustainable intermittent fasting for ten yrs is better than a month of extreme fasting for sure.
    - matwood 4y ago
      I also think about the 80/20 rule. If friends want to go to brunch, I go to brunch. If I'm out of town on business and a client wants to meet for breakfast, I eat a bit of breakfast. I don't make a big deal about it because my steady state is TRF. I'll add though, after TRF for years, when I eat breakfast I notice my energy levels are off for the whole day. And, I'm also crazy hungry the next morning. Whereas normally I'm rarely ever hungry.
TimSchumann 4y ago
Generally coffee and tea are acceptable while fasting, provided you’re not adding anything to them.
projektfu 4y ago
The paper is skimpy on methods. I didn't see if they were in a supplement or something. As such it only defined the size of the eating window and its time of day.
- projektfu 4y ago
  I was able to read it on a larger screen and it indeed references a supplement. Recommended zero calorie beverages: - Water, mineral water, sparkling water, tea, herbal tea - Absolutely no sweetened drink, especially those with artificial sweeteners https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.xcrm.2022.100777/attachment/a2a090a8-ef44-4fbd-be92-06a9ad1008f7/mmc1.pdf https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.xcrm.2022.100777/attachme...
beardface 4y ago
Type 1 diabetic here. My body doesn't produce insulin, so if my glucose level goes up after eating or drinking something, that increase in glucose is a (very) approximate measure of insulin response in someone without type 1 diabetes. Insulin is released/produced/injected in response to glucose level increase (and other signals in someone who doesn't have type 1 diabetes). In my experience, black coffee is absolutely fine outside of an eating window. I fast for at least 18 hours a day, only drinking black coffee and water when fasting. There was no measurable difference in glucose on occasions when I drank black coffee, vs occasions without (all other things as equal as possible).
- agacera 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing this. Did you notice any improvements with your condition (type 1 diabetes) once you started to do intermittent fasting?
  - beardface 4y ago
    It's difficult to tell if IF alone had a change because I also switched to a very low carbohydrate diet at pretty-much the same time. The two combined had a massively positive effect on my diabetes. My glucose level is much more stable, and A1C is lower. I also use significantly less insulin than a lot of people with type 1 diabetes. My reason for doing both was to reduce insulin levels as much as possible.
- yawnxyz 4y ago
  Didn't someone post that they were wearing a glucose monitor and it shoots up every time they drink black coffee?
  - manmal 4y ago
    It does for some people, IIRC. Human metabolism is highly individual.
Daub 4y ago
Common understanding of these matters says no it isn’t. So long as it is black coffe with now sugar. However, when I fast, the coffe I drink can have an adverse effect on my stomach.
- manmal 4y ago
  I’ve found this can be mitigated by mixing in more water.
Gareth321 4y ago
Conventional wisdom is <50 cal won't break the fast. Black coffee contains almost zero calories.
purple_ferret 4y ago
Milk spikes glucose levels, so I guess it. depends on how much milk you use.
988747 4y ago
My problem is: caffeine makes me more hungry, so I need to avoid coffee as well. Tea is OK.
- darkarmani 4y ago
  Caffeine makes you hungry? That's weird. It's a stimulate so it should make you less hungry.
  - OkayPhysicist 4y ago
    Yeah, all of A) stimulants B) hot beverages and C) bitter taste are appetite suppressors. Both coffee and tea work great in my experience, but really high tannin tea can make me nauseous on an empty stomach.
godshatter 4y ago
Just to add to the "what to drink while fasting" list, some people see an insulin spike when drinking soft drinks with artificial sweeteners. They don't break the fast for me (I've been one-meal-a-day for years now), but YMMV.

The common wisdom is usually that black coffee is ok, as is anything without or with barely any calories.

Coffee has a tiny amount of calories, but I've always seen people say it's allowed if you're doing TRE. If you set up your 8 hour window well though, it's probably not a huge deal to skip coffee outside the feeding window, if you're worried?

ddorian43 4y ago

I think depends on why you fast. I've used https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast/ https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast/ and https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast-part-ii/ https://www.zerofasting.com/will-it-break-my-fast-part-ii/

manmal 4y ago

I‘d say it depends whether drinking coffee triggers insulin release for you, or other growth factors like mTOR. According to a quick search, coffee actually seems to decrease mTOR - that would be ideal for fasting. Milk OTOH is ideal for promoting mTOR (babies need to grow fast), so I‘d avoid milk during a fasting window.

Darmody 4y ago

To me, anything beyond water breaks the fast. That doesn't mean you can't have coffee or a cup of tea, but I wouldn't put milk in it because that's literally food, with many calories, macro and micronutrients, etc.

throwaway290 4y ago
I recall seeing on HN someone reporting that even bits of toothpaste from toothbrushing trigger the relevant body response for them. How do you tell/measure whether something breaks the fast for you?
- rippercushions 4y ago
  The Islamic standard is easy: nothing should pass through your lips when fasting. No water, no smoking, no toothpaste, and if you're really strict you can't even spit.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    why is it relevant to a medical conversation?
- Darmody 4y ago
  I don't care that much when I fast. I simply drink water and move on with my life.
- wkearney99 4y ago
  "count", versus actual, measurable metabolic change? Fringe dieting schemes only made worse by anecdotal 'evidence'.
- ambicapter 4y ago
  I think some people use glucose monitors to monitor their insulin response.
- bitwize 4y ago
  You mean you don't collect data about yourself and your biological processes every second of every day to hyperoptimize your existence? What are you doing on HN?

lm28469 4y ago

I skip breakfast and lunch but drink coffee/tea. It's not about being perfect, do what works for you in the long run, a cup of coffee will always be better than a donut / milk & cereals / a full english breakfast when it comes to calories and insulin response

matwood 4y ago
> It's not about being perfect This. I've been doing TRF for years. The only thing I have in the morning is black coffee, with an occasional splash of milk. Diet and exercise is all about doing things for the long term where consistency trumps almost all the other details.
- maxrev17 4y ago
  This is the absolute key.Following sustainable intermittent fasting for ten yrs is better than a month of extreme fasting for sure.
  - matwood 4y ago
    I also think about the 80/20 rule. If friends want to go to brunch, I go to brunch. If I'm out of town on business and a client wants to meet for breakfast, I eat a bit of breakfast. I don't make a big deal about it because my steady state is TRF. I'll add though, after TRF for years, when I eat breakfast I notice my energy levels are off for the whole day. And, I'm also crazy hungry the next morning. Whereas normally I'm rarely ever hungry.

TimSchumann 4y ago

Generally coffee and tea are acceptable while fasting, provided you’re not adding anything to them.

projektfu 4y ago

The paper is skimpy on methods. I didn't see if they were in a supplement or something. As such it only defined the size of the eating window and its time of day.

projektfu 4y ago
I was able to read it on a larger screen and it indeed references a supplement. Recommended zero calorie beverages: - Water, mineral water, sparkling water, tea, herbal tea - Absolutely no sweetened drink, especially those with artificial sweeteners https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.xcrm.2022.100777/attachment/a2a090a8-ef44-4fbd-be92-06a9ad1008f7/mmc1.pdf https://www.cell.com/cms/10.1016/j.xcrm.2022.100777/attachme...

beardface 4y ago

Type 1 diabetic here. My body doesn't produce insulin, so if my glucose level goes up after eating or drinking something, that increase in glucose is a (very) approximate measure of insulin response in someone without type 1 diabetes. Insulin is released/produced/injected in response to glucose level increase (and other signals in someone who doesn't have type 1 diabetes). In my experience, black coffee is absolutely fine outside of an eating window. I fast for at least 18 hours a day, only drinking black coffee and water when fasting. There was no measurable difference in glucose on occasions when I drank black coffee, vs occasions without (all other things as equal as possible).

agacera 4y ago
Thanks for sharing this. Did you notice any improvements with your condition (type 1 diabetes) once you started to do intermittent fasting?
- beardface 4y ago
  It's difficult to tell if IF alone had a change because I also switched to a very low carbohydrate diet at pretty-much the same time. The two combined had a massively positive effect on my diabetes. My glucose level is much more stable, and A1C is lower. I also use significantly less insulin than a lot of people with type 1 diabetes. My reason for doing both was to reduce insulin levels as much as possible.
yawnxyz 4y ago
Didn't someone post that they were wearing a glucose monitor and it shoots up every time they drink black coffee?
- manmal 4y ago
  It does for some people, IIRC. Human metabolism is highly individual.

Daub 4y ago

Common understanding of these matters says no it isn’t. So long as it is black coffe with now sugar. However, when I fast, the coffe I drink can have an adverse effect on my stomach.

manmal 4y ago
I’ve found this can be mitigated by mixing in more water.

Gareth321 4y ago

Conventional wisdom is <50 cal won't break the fast. Black coffee contains almost zero calories.

purple_ferret 4y ago

Milk spikes glucose levels, so I guess it. depends on how much milk you use.

988747 4y ago

My problem is: caffeine makes me more hungry, so I need to avoid coffee as well. Tea is OK.

darkarmani 4y ago
Caffeine makes you hungry? That's weird. It's a stimulate so it should make you less hungry.
- OkayPhysicist 4y ago
  Yeah, all of A) stimulants B) hot beverages and C) bitter taste are appetite suppressors. Both coffee and tea work great in my experience, but really high tannin tea can make me nauseous on an empty stomach.

godshatter 4y ago

Just to add to the "what to drink while fasting" list, some people see an insulin spike when drinking soft drinks with artificial sweeteners. They don't break the fast for me (I've been one-meal-a-day for years now), but YMMV.