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VR may open up a totally new field that is independent of current games. The best examples are Echo VR and BeatSaber. Some call them Exergames, but i think "ex

VR may open up a totally new field that is independent of current games. The best examples are Echo VR and BeatSaber. Some call them Exergames, but i think "exercise" discredits the amount of fun you'll have. When the movement of your body itself becomes a major component of the gameplay (beyond gimmicky reload sequences), VR begins to shine. For example, EchoVR has players dribbling, precisely throwing, pushing themselves off walls and even _physically jumping_ to catch a disk.

dexwiz 4y ago
The article's argument, and mine, is this is actually a very limited view of VR. Some people want to do these active things, but most people just want to hang out. Even in the much tamer example from the article, playing cards at a table, the game forces you to mimic the in game setup in real life. If the player has any a11y needs or just doesn't want to sit that way, then there aren't any good alternatives.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
gs17 4y ago
Yeah, I got the Creed VR boxing game in a bundle at some point and VR sports is honestly a combination of too fun and too sweaty for me to play much of. I haven't needed to stretch to prepare for playing a video game before, even with the Wii.
falcolas 4y ago
> EchoVR has players dribbling, precisely throwing, pushing themselves off walls and even _physically jumping_ to catch a disk. I get how this can be fun (I do enjoy Beat Saber), for short stretches of time and if you're in decent physical condition (my knees hate crouching-heavy songs). But if you're in a wheelchair, you can't jump. You can't crouch. Heck, if you're over 40, you probably don't want to jump on a carpet with something blocking your view. Bad landings can easily result in permanent injuries. I've seen more than a few colleagues quit after-work basketball games for this very reason. So, while there's definitely a place for physical games in VR, there also needs to be a place for more Moss-like games in VR too.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  > Heck, if you're over 40, you probably don't want to jump on a carpet with something blocking your view. Whoever wants to do that is thinking completely out of inexperience. 20 years olds can permanently injure themselves too, and it's not much harder.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    I can't disagree with this point, at all. But I also remember my "I'm invincible" years where I did a lot of stupid shit because it was novel and/or entertaining. I'm mildly shocked that it's just my knees that I gripe about.
    - marcosdumay 4y ago
      Yep. I don't disagree that many people will want that. I'm just saying that they shouldn't. It's not enough fun for the risk.
- SebastianKra 4y ago
  I think where we disagree is whether there is a large enough demand for these non-physical games. VR is selling bad enough as it is. Having seen friends drop out of VR for various reasons, I believe that the main draw, more so than immersion and more so than social presence, _is_ the physical movement. Oculus' top sellers list seems to confirm that belief. I'm not denying that there is demand outside of exergames, but contrary to the articles clickbaity headline, they're not "the point". Edit: *Currenty. This will change once VR becomes accessible and comfortable.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    I'm afraid that I don't understand the link between people dropping out of VR and a lack of good games requiring physical movement. As you said yourself, the top lists are dominated by those games. Not because they're superior, but because you can already play non-physical games on other consoles (PS5/Switch/Xbox, computers, phones, etc). I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. Stick with me for a moment as I reason this through. Even the most fit player can only spend an hour or two playing physical VR games. What we do when our body is exhausted from exercising in VR, yet we want to play games some more? We go play more traditional games on a monitor or TV (or phone). Why do we change which entertainment device we're using? Because the non-physical games we want to play are not available in a VR setting. We can't play angry birds, Call of Duty, Hades, Genshin Impact, or FFXIV in VR. Thus, we must have at least two consoles. Which for most people means they'll have just one console, because consoles are expensive. And logically, that means most people will go for the non-VR console, since it has more games, by several magnitudes. In contrast, if our entire library of games was available via your VR headset - even as a "you're sitting in a theater" experience - I believe many would be happy to play them there. They could get their full experience with one console.

dexwiz 4y ago

The article's argument, and mine, is this is actually a very limited view of VR. Some people want to do these active things, but most people just want to hang out. Even in the much tamer example from the article, playing cards at a table, the game forces you to mimic the in game setup in real life. If the player has any a11y needs or just doesn't want to sit that way, then there aren't any good alternatives.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

gs17 4y ago

Yeah, I got the Creed VR boxing game in a bundle at some point and VR sports is honestly a combination of too fun and too sweaty for me to play much of. I haven't needed to stretch to prepare for playing a video game before, even with the Wii.

falcolas 4y ago

> EchoVR has players dribbling, precisely throwing, pushing themselves off walls and even _physically jumping_ to catch a disk. I get how this can be fun (I do enjoy Beat Saber), for short stretches of time and if you're in decent physical condition (my knees hate crouching-heavy songs). But if you're in a wheelchair, you can't jump. You can't crouch. Heck, if you're over 40, you probably don't want to jump on a carpet with something blocking your view. Bad landings can easily result in permanent injuries. I've seen more than a few colleagues quit after-work basketball games for this very reason. So, while there's definitely a place for physical games in VR, there also needs to be a place for more Moss-like games in VR too.

marcosdumay 4y ago
> Heck, if you're over 40, you probably don't want to jump on a carpet with something blocking your view. Whoever wants to do that is thinking completely out of inexperience. 20 years olds can permanently injure themselves too, and it's not much harder.
- falcolas 4y ago
  I can't disagree with this point, at all. But I also remember my "I'm invincible" years where I did a lot of stupid shit because it was novel and/or entertaining. I'm mildly shocked that it's just my knees that I gripe about.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    Yep. I don't disagree that many people will want that. I'm just saying that they shouldn't. It's not enough fun for the risk.
SebastianKra 4y ago
I think where we disagree is whether there is a large enough demand for these non-physical games. VR is selling bad enough as it is. Having seen friends drop out of VR for various reasons, I believe that the main draw, more so than immersion and more so than social presence, _is_ the physical movement. Oculus' top sellers list seems to confirm that belief. I'm not denying that there is demand outside of exergames, but contrary to the articles clickbaity headline, they're not "the point". Edit: *Currenty. This will change once VR becomes accessible and comfortable.
- falcolas 4y ago
  I'm afraid that I don't understand the link between people dropping out of VR and a lack of good games requiring physical movement. As you said yourself, the top lists are dominated by those games. Not because they're superior, but because you can already play non-physical games on other consoles (PS5/Switch/Xbox, computers, phones, etc). I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. Stick with me for a moment as I reason this through. Even the most fit player can only spend an hour or two playing physical VR games. What we do when our body is exhausted from exercising in VR, yet we want to play games some more? We go play more traditional games on a monitor or TV (or phone). Why do we change which entertainment device we're using? Because the non-physical games we want to play are not available in a VR setting. We can't play angry birds, Call of Duty, Hades, Genshin Impact, or FFXIV in VR. Thus, we must have at least two consoles. Which for most people means they'll have just one console, because consoles are expensive. And logically, that means most people will go for the non-VR console, since it has more games, by several magnitudes. In contrast, if our entire library of games was available via your VR headset - even as a "you're sitting in a theater" experience - I believe many would be happy to play them there. They could get their full experience with one console.