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Web is not an app. Chrome is, and the dangers in this article apply neatly to a single-browser market.

by bornfreddy 4y ago

chrischen 4y ago
Chrome has a worrying share of the desktop market but luckily most people probably browse on their phones these days.
- DoktorDelta 4y ago
  Chrome has a similar market share on mobile as well, especially since it's the built-in browser for Android
  - chrischen 4y ago
    https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/unite... Not similar. Significantly lower. In fact, it’s not even number one because Android is a lot less popular in the US.
- Khalos 4y ago
  If anything the mobile browser situation is much worse. On one major platform, there is Chrome by default (so even bigger market share issues). People can install other browsers, but far fewer do than even on desktop. For those that do, most use the Play Store which has some conflict of interest concerns. On the other platform it's even worse. The only option is Safari and the conflict of interest is fully realized because other browsers aren't even allowed on the App Store
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Where is there Chrome by default? Because Samsung is the #1 Android vendor and the default browser on Samsung devices is Samsung's own browser...
    - Khalos 4y ago
      I can't speak to all of them, but the Pixel line absolutely does, and so do some other vendors. At one point Samsung came with both Samsung Browser (chromium based) and Chrome preinstalled, but I'm not sure if that's changed in recent years.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        Check the sales figures. The Pixel line is a very minor player, especially worldwide. The biggest vendors are Samsung, Xiami, Oppo, Vivo and Huawei. All have their own browsers. The Pixel line has 2% market share in NA and less worldwide. Chrome dominates because it's better. People install it.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        Chrome is the default on way, way, less than 50% of Android phones.
  - null_object 4y ago
    > The only option is Safari and the conflict of interest is fully realized because other browsers aren't even allowed on the App Store. This is such a persistent myth on HN - I think I read it at least once a week - usually on one of the many alternative browsers, plenty of which are available on the AppStore. WebKit is the building block of browsers on iOS, but there are an extremely varied selection of browsers using it.
paxys 4y ago
"The web" is an app that runs on the internet.
- narag 4y ago
  The relevant difference is that a single entity doesn't control all the functionality and layers.
  - seydor 4y ago
    It is sad that we have 2 generations of people believing that falsehood HTTP literally runs on the application layer, as do email, IRC , gopher and all the old internet. Nowhere in the word "Application" is it implied that some CEO controls what porn people can view.
    - joe_the_user 4y ago
      The term "app" today implies something controlled by a single company. Whatever the "application layer" might have meant in days of yore, the term now derives from the "app store" and not other earlier usages. That's how language works. (and I'm old to remember those usages in the 90s and they were technical/unusual compared "something the user runs" even back then, jeesh).
      - seydor 4y ago
        maybe that's how programmers, entrepreneurs and VCs call it, but most people i know said an app is a program they run on their phone/computer. I really don't get follow the "controlled by a company" part
Enginerrrd 4y ago
Philosophically, what's the difference between an everything app and an OS? Browsers might as well be an OS of sorts the way people use and interact with them.
- klyrs 4y ago
  It's all a matter of control, in my opinion. I'd say that iOS is practically an everything app, but Android is not. ChromeOS may be borderline, because of the hoops one has to jump through to side-load apps.
- joe_the_user 4y ago
  As originally defined, an OS is a set of functionalities offered to user-programs for accessing hardware, memory and similar things at a higher level - in it's original intent, an OS was passive. A browser originally also had the intent of being just a receiver/displayer of the information the user requested. Of course, browsers have indeed become more likes OSes as web pages have become like programs. Of course, mobile OSes and OSes in general have become active and oriented to filtering input as well as generating inputs. This creep is everywhere - MS Windows displaying adds and flogging it's "app store" is one notably noxious example.
- abecedarius 4y ago
  Philosophically, an OS is a virtual computer meant to be shared among programs (usually an open-ended set of programs, and usually regulating how they interact). You could say the web is not that because it's a distributed system instead of a virtual computer, so the browser makes a better match. I guess an everything app would be different in that its maker probably goes like "Open-ended set of programs? Who cares, you nerd, I'm just gonna make deals."

Web is not an app. Chrome is, and the dangers in this article apply neatly to a single-browser market.

chrischen 4y ago

Chrome has a worrying share of the desktop market but luckily most people probably browse on their phones these days.

DoktorDelta 4y ago
Chrome has a similar market share on mobile as well, especially since it's the built-in browser for Android
- chrischen 4y ago
  https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/unite... Not similar. Significantly lower. In fact, it’s not even number one because Android is a lot less popular in the US.
Khalos 4y ago
If anything the mobile browser situation is much worse. On one major platform, there is Chrome by default (so even bigger market share issues). People can install other browsers, but far fewer do than even on desktop. For those that do, most use the Play Store which has some conflict of interest concerns. On the other platform it's even worse. The only option is Safari and the conflict of interest is fully realized because other browsers aren't even allowed on the App Store
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Where is there Chrome by default? Because Samsung is the #1 Android vendor and the default browser on Samsung devices is Samsung's own browser...
  - Khalos 4y ago
    I can't speak to all of them, but the Pixel line absolutely does, and so do some other vendors. At one point Samsung came with both Samsung Browser (chromium based) and Chrome preinstalled, but I'm not sure if that's changed in recent years.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      Check the sales figures. The Pixel line is a very minor player, especially worldwide. The biggest vendors are Samsung, Xiami, Oppo, Vivo and Huawei. All have their own browsers. The Pixel line has 2% market share in NA and less worldwide. Chrome dominates because it's better. People install it.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Chrome is the default on way, way, less than 50% of Android phones.
- null_object 4y ago
  > The only option is Safari and the conflict of interest is fully realized because other browsers aren't even allowed on the App Store. This is such a persistent myth on HN - I think I read it at least once a week - usually on one of the many alternative browsers, plenty of which are available on the AppStore. WebKit is the building block of browsers on iOS, but there are an extremely varied selection of browsers using it.

paxys 4y ago

"The web" is an app that runs on the internet.

narag 4y ago
The relevant difference is that a single entity doesn't control all the functionality and layers.
- seydor 4y ago
  It is sad that we have 2 generations of people believing that falsehood HTTP literally runs on the application layer, as do email, IRC , gopher and all the old internet. Nowhere in the word "Application" is it implied that some CEO controls what porn people can view.
  - joe_the_user 4y ago
    The term "app" today implies something controlled by a single company. Whatever the "application layer" might have meant in days of yore, the term now derives from the "app store" and not other earlier usages. That's how language works. (and I'm old to remember those usages in the 90s and they were technical/unusual compared "something the user runs" even back then, jeesh).
    - seydor 4y ago
      maybe that's how programmers, entrepreneurs and VCs call it, but most people i know said an app is a program they run on their phone/computer. I really don't get follow the "controlled by a company" part

Enginerrrd 4y ago

Philosophically, what's the difference between an everything app and an OS? Browsers might as well be an OS of sorts the way people use and interact with them.

klyrs 4y ago
It's all a matter of control, in my opinion. I'd say that iOS is practically an everything app, but Android is not. ChromeOS may be borderline, because of the hoops one has to jump through to side-load apps.
joe_the_user 4y ago
As originally defined, an OS is a set of functionalities offered to user-programs for accessing hardware, memory and similar things at a higher level - in it's original intent, an OS was passive. A browser originally also had the intent of being just a receiver/displayer of the information the user requested. Of course, browsers have indeed become more likes OSes as web pages have become like programs. Of course, mobile OSes and OSes in general have become active and oriented to filtering input as well as generating inputs. This creep is everywhere - MS Windows displaying adds and flogging it's "app store" is one notably noxious example.
abecedarius 4y ago
Philosophically, an OS is a virtual computer meant to be shared among programs (usually an open-ended set of programs, and usually regulating how they interact). You could say the web is not that because it's a distributed system instead of a virtual computer, so the browser makes a better match. I guess an everything app would be different in that its maker probably goes like "Open-ended set of programs? Who cares, you nerd, I'm just gonna make deals."