11 ms·

The UK seems to have gone off the deep end here. I hope that this kind of behavior by law enforcement is not something that the public will find acceptable, and

The UK seems to have gone off the deep end here. I hope that this kind of behavior by law enforcement is not something that the public will find acceptable, and that it will be rejected and ridiculed as it should be.

api 4y ago
From a distance it seems like the UK has gone off the deep end in general.
- dang 4y ago
  If you keep posting flamebait to HN we are going to have to ban you.
zasdffaa 4y ago
Brit here. Some of this stuff makes me uncomfortable about where to draw the line here. I, frankly, don't know. What makes me even more uncomfortable is not that the USA draws the line differently (better? worse? Just right? I don't know) but that so many USA'ians are so utterly cocksure that their way is right and everywhere else must be wrong if they do it differently (Edit: extensively in online posts such as here; in american's I've known I've very rarely found it). There seems no possibility in that mindset for any self-reflection or questioning, and that's dangerous. Just my tuppence ha'penny.
- nine_k 4y ago
  It's nice to be reminded sometimes how 1776 was not just a religious or economic, but also a cultural split.
- cortesoft 4y ago
  As an American, the importance of free speech is ingrained in us from a very early age. It is thought of as a foundation of free society, and it is a VERY high bar to justify using the law to prevent speech. It is a Central American value.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    Yes. I know that and you've just presented it again without asking yourself if it's right or if others should be judged by your standards. You've kind of made my point.
    - cortesoft 4y ago
      Oh, I question it myself all the time. I am still very much in favor of free speech, although I do think we as a society need to work on dealing with the consequences of free speech rather than just thinking it will work itself out. However, my concerns with free speech would never include the types of things the UK is enforcing here. I am not worried about people being upset or hurt by mean things, I am worried about false information and propaganda.
  - okasaki 4y ago
    Why? What exactly is it achieving for your society?
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      Possibly a massive lot of good - or not. My point was, it doesn't seem questioned by those who espouse it so strongly, so if it's set wrongly (if we can decide such a thing) it can't be re-set better.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Political stability. The US has operated under its current system of government for longer than any other democratic country. Allowing the craziest to express themselves without being silenced allows the democratic process to play out in a way that legitimizes the outcome.
      - gojomo 4y ago
        I agree that having some of the world's broadest protections for free speech is important to the US political stability, & its technological/cultural/economic power. But, hasn't the UK's "current system of government" been at least as continuous as the US for longer? (Has any regime-discontinuity happened since, say, the adoption of the US Constitution?)
- RajT88 4y ago
  I see you have met my countrymen and seen how they view the world.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    Actually all but a couple of american's I've met have been very thoughtful, and open. The attitude that worries me is expressed online IME. I'll edit my post to say that.
- blisterpeanuts 4y ago
  Hate speech as a crime is very much a thing in the U.S.; people have been fired from jobs, suspended or expelled from school, even arrested. On the one hand, there’s a long tradition of free speech absolutism, but on the other, also a long tradition of punishing speech. Then it ends up in court where usually it’s declared to be protected by the Bill of Rights. Freedom needs to be re-litigated periodically.
  - AnonCoward42 4y ago
    > Hate speech as a crime is very much a thing in the U.S.; people have been fired from jobs, suspended or expelled from school, even arrested. Isn't this some kind of mob rule basically? This is hard to avoid I think, but it is certainly detrimental to any society. It's at least something that this is not cast into legislation in the US (yet).
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      The other poster is wrong, the only thing listed that's indication of a crime (and even that isn't proof of a crime) is being arrested. Nothing else is indication of any crime whatsoever.
- ummonk 4y ago
  As an American, I feel harassed and intimidated by your comment attacking people of my nationality. Perhaps I should report you to the police.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    ^ this. There are a lot of things to criticize the US for, believing people should be able to speak their minds aint one of em. Yes, we are better in that regard than any country that restricts speech more than us. Don't like what I just said? Don't care, I live in the US, where such things are allowed.
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      > ...believing people should be able to speak their minds aint one of em And I agree. But that wasn't the point at all. Please re-read my post.
    - psd1 4y ago
      I value free speech too. But. Free-speech absolutism is a position you might rethink if you had panzerkampfwagens rolling over your fields in living memory. Visit Auschwitz, then have a think. And fwiw, there are limits to free speech in the US, too. You could get yourself arrested for shouting "Fire!" in a cinema. Does that bother you? Do you feel your rights are curtailed, if you cannot freely express your opinion that a cinema is on fire?
      - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        This has nothing to do with free-speech absolutism. > You could get yourself arrested for shouting "Fire!" in a cinema. Not only is that not true, the justice that quote is based off of later changed his mind. --- > Visit Auschwitz, then have a think. The US is not a perfect country by any means, but in this we are superior. Freedom is risky, the question is whether the curtailing of freedom is worth it. No way in hell is it worth having the police show up at your door because of a meme image you shared on facebook.
- tb_technical 4y ago
  American here. We draw the line correctly. Our ancestors gambled their lives (fighting, killing, and sometimes dying to your ancestors) for these rights. So, please understand, our belligerence is an aspect of our culture we've had since the beginning. And if you ever get sick of your government's antics and want somewhere to go, you can always move here! :)
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    > American here. We draw the line correctly. So no questioning it, no evidence or justification given, just a plain "we're right"[1]. You've made my point. [1] and by implication "everyone else is wrong"
    - tb_technical 4y ago
      I at least gave you an explanation as to where the belief comes from. We're belligerents, plain and simple. Perhaps we learned it from our parent nation. And, you're right. Everyone else is wrong on this issue. Unfortunately, you're going to have to live with that fact...

api 4y ago

From a distance it seems like the UK has gone off the deep end in general.

dang 4y ago
If you keep posting flamebait to HN we are going to have to ban you.

zasdffaa 4y ago

Brit here. Some of this stuff makes me uncomfortable about where to draw the line here. I, frankly, don't know. What makes me even more uncomfortable is not that the USA draws the line differently (better? worse? Just right? I don't know) but that so many USA'ians are so utterly cocksure that their way is right and everywhere else must be wrong if they do it differently (Edit: extensively in online posts such as here; in american's I've known I've very rarely found it). There seems no possibility in that mindset for any self-reflection or questioning, and that's dangerous. Just my tuppence ha'penny.

nine_k 4y ago
It's nice to be reminded sometimes how 1776 was not just a religious or economic, but also a cultural split.
cortesoft 4y ago
As an American, the importance of free speech is ingrained in us from a very early age. It is thought of as a foundation of free society, and it is a VERY high bar to justify using the law to prevent speech. It is a Central American value.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  Yes. I know that and you've just presented it again without asking yourself if it's right or if others should be judged by your standards. You've kind of made my point.
  - cortesoft 4y ago
    Oh, I question it myself all the time. I am still very much in favor of free speech, although I do think we as a society need to work on dealing with the consequences of free speech rather than just thinking it will work itself out. However, my concerns with free speech would never include the types of things the UK is enforcing here. I am not worried about people being upset or hurt by mean things, I am worried about false information and propaganda.
- okasaki 4y ago
  Why? What exactly is it achieving for your society?
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    Possibly a massive lot of good - or not. My point was, it doesn't seem questioned by those who espouse it so strongly, so if it's set wrongly (if we can decide such a thing) it can't be re-set better.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Political stability. The US has operated under its current system of government for longer than any other democratic country. Allowing the craziest to express themselves without being silenced allows the democratic process to play out in a way that legitimizes the outcome.
    - gojomo 4y ago
      I agree that having some of the world's broadest protections for free speech is important to the US political stability, & its technological/cultural/economic power. But, hasn't the UK's "current system of government" been at least as continuous as the US for longer? (Has any regime-discontinuity happened since, say, the adoption of the US Constitution?)
RajT88 4y ago
I see you have met my countrymen and seen how they view the world.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  Actually all but a couple of american's I've met have been very thoughtful, and open. The attitude that worries me is expressed online IME. I'll edit my post to say that.
blisterpeanuts 4y ago
Hate speech as a crime is very much a thing in the U.S.; people have been fired from jobs, suspended or expelled from school, even arrested. On the one hand, there’s a long tradition of free speech absolutism, but on the other, also a long tradition of punishing speech. Then it ends up in court where usually it’s declared to be protected by the Bill of Rights. Freedom needs to be re-litigated periodically.
- AnonCoward42 4y ago
  > Hate speech as a crime is very much a thing in the U.S.; people have been fired from jobs, suspended or expelled from school, even arrested. Isn't this some kind of mob rule basically? This is hard to avoid I think, but it is certainly detrimental to any society. It's at least something that this is not cast into legislation in the US (yet).
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    The other poster is wrong, the only thing listed that's indication of a crime (and even that isn't proof of a crime) is being arrested. Nothing else is indication of any crime whatsoever.
ummonk 4y ago
As an American, I feel harassed and intimidated by your comment attacking people of my nationality. Perhaps I should report you to the police.
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  ^ this. There are a lot of things to criticize the US for, believing people should be able to speak their minds aint one of em. Yes, we are better in that regard than any country that restricts speech more than us. Don't like what I just said? Don't care, I live in the US, where such things are allowed.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    > ...believing people should be able to speak their minds aint one of em And I agree. But that wasn't the point at all. Please re-read my post.
  - psd1 4y ago
    I value free speech too. But. Free-speech absolutism is a position you might rethink if you had panzerkampfwagens rolling over your fields in living memory. Visit Auschwitz, then have a think. And fwiw, there are limits to free speech in the US, too. You could get yourself arrested for shouting "Fire!" in a cinema. Does that bother you? Do you feel your rights are curtailed, if you cannot freely express your opinion that a cinema is on fire?
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      This has nothing to do with free-speech absolutism. > You could get yourself arrested for shouting "Fire!" in a cinema. Not only is that not true, the justice that quote is based off of later changed his mind. --- > Visit Auschwitz, then have a think. The US is not a perfect country by any means, but in this we are superior. Freedom is risky, the question is whether the curtailing of freedom is worth it. No way in hell is it worth having the police show up at your door because of a meme image you shared on facebook.
tb_technical 4y ago
American here. We draw the line correctly. Our ancestors gambled their lives (fighting, killing, and sometimes dying to your ancestors) for these rights. So, please understand, our belligerence is an aspect of our culture we've had since the beginning. And if you ever get sick of your government's antics and want somewhere to go, you can always move here! :)
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  > American here. We draw the line correctly. So no questioning it, no evidence or justification given, just a plain "we're right"[1]. You've made my point. [1] and by implication "everyone else is wrong"
  - tb_technical 4y ago
    I at least gave you an explanation as to where the belief comes from. We're belligerents, plain and simple. Perhaps we learned it from our parent nation. And, you're right. Everyone else is wrong on this issue. Unfortunately, you're going to have to live with that fact...