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Not sure about the developers, but PHP and Javascript have a problem in common: PHP has some sort of standard library but it's not intuitive (the function nami

Not sure about the developers, but PHP and Javascript have a problem in common: PHP has some sort of standard library but it's not intuitive (the function naming is a mess), sometimes outdated, wrong or broken (but the broken behavior has now ossified and will never be removed for backwards-compatibility reasons). JS has basically no standard library at all. Both of these issues mean everyone has to use third-party packages to make up for that, of which there are tons, each with their own issues, breaking changes, upgrades, etc.

onli 4y ago
PHP changes behaviour of core functions all the time now (and subsequently breaks old programs with every release). In every release stuff is deprecated and deprecated stuff removed. Look at https://www.php.net/manual/de/function.implode.php https://www.php.net/manual/de/function.implode.php for a telling example and check the 8.1 changelog at https://www.php.net/releases/8.1/en.php https://www.php.net/releases/8.1/en.php for a list of bc breaking changes.
- abeyer 4y ago
  Only about two decades too late.
  - elteto 4y ago
    Don’t move the goalposts.
    - abeyer 4y ago
      I never set a goalpost, so certainly didn't move it... but one very reasonable goalpost I might have set would have been "Don't let your language stagnate in a hole of bad practices on top of bad design for a decade or more while the internet fills up with content memorializing and perpetuating that state." I'm not a PHP hater, and I'm the first to admit that what I've seen of recent work on the language is a breath of fresh air. Even in its "fractal of bad design" days, the language had its merits and has paid my bills before. But I'm also the first to admit it absolutely dug its own way into that aforementioned hole, and personally I think it is now way too late to climb back out to a point of regaining significant mindshare.
dawnerd 4y ago
JavaScript has a ton built in but developers get in a habit of using libraries that introduce their own api and polyfills on top. I blame awful browser support of years past. Today most new features are available pretty quickly across all the major versions.

onli 4y ago

PHP changes behaviour of core functions all the time now (and subsequently breaks old programs with every release). In every release stuff is deprecated and deprecated stuff removed. Look at https://www.php.net/manual/de/function.implode.php https://www.php.net/manual/de/function.implode.php for a telling example and check the 8.1 changelog at https://www.php.net/releases/8.1/en.php https://www.php.net/releases/8.1/en.php for a list of bc breaking changes.

abeyer 4y ago
Only about two decades too late.
- elteto 4y ago
  Don’t move the goalposts.
  - abeyer 4y ago
    I never set a goalpost, so certainly didn't move it... but one very reasonable goalpost I might have set would have been "Don't let your language stagnate in a hole of bad practices on top of bad design for a decade or more while the internet fills up with content memorializing and perpetuating that state." I'm not a PHP hater, and I'm the first to admit that what I've seen of recent work on the language is a breath of fresh air. Even in its "fractal of bad design" days, the language had its merits and has paid my bills before. But I'm also the first to admit it absolutely dug its own way into that aforementioned hole, and personally I think it is now way too late to climb back out to a point of regaining significant mindshare.

dawnerd 4y ago

JavaScript has a ton built in but developers get in a habit of using libraries that introduce their own api and polyfills on top. I blame awful browser support of years past. Today most new features are available pretty quickly across all the major versions.