4 ms·

Was she killed by the treatment or the attack? I've seen some very mentally disabled people and I've never seen "11 antidepressants" that's insane and in no wa

Was she killed by the treatment or the attack? I've seen some very mentally disabled people and I've never seen "11 antidepressants" that's insane and in no way evidence based in any real sense.

masklinn 4y ago
What is your thinking exactly? That the victim and doctor went up to that because they found it was a good laugh, and a fun joke to carry over 6 years?
- CodeWriter23 4y ago
  I can't speak for OP. My thinking is, if 11 antidepressants are prescribed, SOME must be the SSRI types that have known side effects of homicide and suicide. I think there is an ethical question of a doctor prescribing both the antidepressants and a euthanization. Even if a separate practitioner was involved for the final decision. I'm not convinced it is possible for a fully volitional decision to be made by the deceased if her capacity were diminished by the antidepressants.
  - amelius 4y ago
    > I think there is an ethical question of a doctor prescribing both the antidepressants and a euthanization. Very good point.
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago
      The person prescribing the antidepressant medications and the two psychiatrists evaluating and approving the euthanasia were different.
  - skissane 4y ago
    Here’s my question - if the government is going to allow you to legally have professional help in killing yourself, is it also going to allow you to legally try every possible substance which might conceivably make your life bearable enough that you no longer want to do that-including psychedelics, heroin, etc? I’m pretty sure the answer in Belgium (and many other jurisdictions with legal euthanasia/assisted suicide) is “no”, which to me seems deeply perverse.
- haswell 4y ago
  Not OP, but as someone who has some experience with anti-depressants, I had a similar reaction. Antidepressants are tricky. They can take awhile to work, and usually the goal is subtle changes in one’s brain chemistry. I’m not a doctor and was never taking more than 1-2 meds at any one time, but the article made it sound like the primary things they tried involved “throw some more meds at it”. And these meds can also directly impact one’s emotional state, sometimes to the point that they make things definitively worse. When dealing with things that happened to us, meds are like a cast or bandage. They help hold things in place while healing happens. Healing from trauma doesn’t just happen by taking meds. It happens by doing sometimes grueling internal work. > That the victim and doctor went up to that because they found it was a good laugh, and a fun joke to carry over 6 years? This is a pretty bizarre conclusion. Obviously none of us have all of the details, but to me, the takeaway is “maybe throwing more meds at this is not the answer”. To conclude this is not to imply that they didn’t take what they were doing seriously. She even reflects on this in one post where she mentions that maybe meds aren’t the only solution.
- coldtea 4y ago
  there is such a thing as incompetence, malpractice, and overprescription...
beardyw 4y ago
"And earlier this year, Shanti chose to be euthanised, a procedure which is legal in Belgium, and died on May 7 after two psychiatrists approved her request."
ok_dad 4y ago
Could be that she tried 11 at different times, not that it’s been all 11 at one time for years.
- haswell 4y ago
  It’s in the article. > In one post, she wrote: "I get a few medications for breakfast. And up to 11 antidepressants a day.
  - okasaki 4y ago
    Seems like that could mean 11 pills of an unknown number of different antidepressants per day.
    - skissane 4y ago
      Nobody would prescribe 11 different drugs in the same class. But some people are on an SSRI, an antipsychotic, a mood stabiliser, an anoxyltic, etc. 11 at once is almost surely an exaggeration, but 4 at once is not unheard of (generally considered to be outside of best practice except in exceptional situations, but often not so severely outside best practice that the prescriber will be disciplined.)
  - ok_dad 4y ago
    I mean, it’s a news article, so I take the “facts” they lay out with a pinch of salt. From experience, finding a working drug is hard, sometimes impossible. Sure, if she was on 11 at once, that would probably be extreme, but even then I’d rather trust her doctors than my own lay opinion.
    - haswell 4y ago
      As someone with experience with antidepressants, if my doc had me on 11, I’d be talking to new doctors. You could be right and this is an exaggeration, but it’s a quote directly attributed to her, and it’s the only info we have. Otherwise we might as well not discuss any of this. I don’t think any of us have enough good info about this situation to form solid opinions, but I do think the circumstances sound like they need more scrutiny.
jquery 4y ago
Without more information, I would take “11 antidepressants” with a grain of salt.
- lurquer 4y ago
  I don’t think increasing your sodium intake by such a small amount would make a difference.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
She was killed by doctors.

Was she killed by the treatment or the attack? I've seen some very mentally disabled people and I've never seen "11 antidepressants" that's insane and in no way evidence based in any real sense.

masklinn 4y ago

What is your thinking exactly? That the victim and doctor went up to that because they found it was a good laugh, and a fun joke to carry over 6 years?

CodeWriter23 4y ago
I can't speak for OP. My thinking is, if 11 antidepressants are prescribed, SOME must be the SSRI types that have known side effects of homicide and suicide. I think there is an ethical question of a doctor prescribing both the antidepressants and a euthanization. Even if a separate practitioner was involved for the final decision. I'm not convinced it is possible for a fully volitional decision to be made by the deceased if her capacity were diminished by the antidepressants.
- amelius 4y ago
  > I think there is an ethical question of a doctor prescribing both the antidepressants and a euthanization. Very good point.
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    The person prescribing the antidepressant medications and the two psychiatrists evaluating and approving the euthanasia were different.
- skissane 4y ago
  Here’s my question - if the government is going to allow you to legally have professional help in killing yourself, is it also going to allow you to legally try every possible substance which might conceivably make your life bearable enough that you no longer want to do that-including psychedelics, heroin, etc? I’m pretty sure the answer in Belgium (and many other jurisdictions with legal euthanasia/assisted suicide) is “no”, which to me seems deeply perverse.
haswell 4y ago
Not OP, but as someone who has some experience with anti-depressants, I had a similar reaction. Antidepressants are tricky. They can take awhile to work, and usually the goal is subtle changes in one’s brain chemistry. I’m not a doctor and was never taking more than 1-2 meds at any one time, but the article made it sound like the primary things they tried involved “throw some more meds at it”. And these meds can also directly impact one’s emotional state, sometimes to the point that they make things definitively worse. When dealing with things that happened to us, meds are like a cast or bandage. They help hold things in place while healing happens. Healing from trauma doesn’t just happen by taking meds. It happens by doing sometimes grueling internal work. > That the victim and doctor went up to that because they found it was a good laugh, and a fun joke to carry over 6 years? This is a pretty bizarre conclusion. Obviously none of us have all of the details, but to me, the takeaway is “maybe throwing more meds at this is not the answer”. To conclude this is not to imply that they didn’t take what they were doing seriously. She even reflects on this in one post where she mentions that maybe meds aren’t the only solution.
coldtea 4y ago
there is such a thing as incompetence, malpractice, and overprescription...

beardyw 4y ago

"And earlier this year, Shanti chose to be euthanised, a procedure which is legal in Belgium, and died on May 7 after two psychiatrists approved her request."

ok_dad 4y ago

Could be that she tried 11 at different times, not that it’s been all 11 at one time for years.

haswell 4y ago
It’s in the article. > In one post, she wrote: "I get a few medications for breakfast. And up to 11 antidepressants a day.
- okasaki 4y ago
  Seems like that could mean 11 pills of an unknown number of different antidepressants per day.
  - skissane 4y ago
    Nobody would prescribe 11 different drugs in the same class. But some people are on an SSRI, an antipsychotic, a mood stabiliser, an anoxyltic, etc. 11 at once is almost surely an exaggeration, but 4 at once is not unheard of (generally considered to be outside of best practice except in exceptional situations, but often not so severely outside best practice that the prescriber will be disciplined.)
- ok_dad 4y ago
  I mean, it’s a news article, so I take the “facts” they lay out with a pinch of salt. From experience, finding a working drug is hard, sometimes impossible. Sure, if she was on 11 at once, that would probably be extreme, but even then I’d rather trust her doctors than my own lay opinion.
  - haswell 4y ago
    As someone with experience with antidepressants, if my doc had me on 11, I’d be talking to new doctors. You could be right and this is an exaggeration, but it’s a quote directly attributed to her, and it’s the only info we have. Otherwise we might as well not discuss any of this. I don’t think any of us have enough good info about this situation to form solid opinions, but I do think the circumstances sound like they need more scrutiny.

jquery 4y ago

Without more information, I would take “11 antidepressants” with a grain of salt.

lurquer 4y ago
I don’t think increasing your sodium intake by such a small amount would make a difference.

MichaelCollins 4y ago

She was killed by doctors.