5 ms·

Reverse Engineering a Cat Feeder to Boost Productivity

142 points by bubblehack3r 4y ago

neilv 4y ago
Fun hack. Though, for myself, I'd be afraid of breaking either my diet or my normal goal-directed work focus.
zeristor 4y ago
The tricky bit is trying to outwit yourself. Just opening the lid and delving in.
- sshine 4y ago
  As a person who eats all the candy in the house, I am very good at following rules also. E.g. “don’t buy candy” or “don’t eat someone else’s candy”. Maybe “only eat dispensed candy” isn’t a good rule to follow in itself, but I do wonder if the dopamine release associated with triggering the release of candy counts for more than the candy itself. :-)
  - 6stringmerc 4y ago
    Haha this is a great reply and reminds me of how much I love Rube Goldberg machines! Simple outcome, complex process. The first thing that came to mind was Doc Brown’s automatic dog feeder for Einstein in the original Back to the Future.
rwestergren 4y ago
I was scratching my head on how he was capturing requests without mentioning a proxy cert, but then I saw the security note at the bottom. You'll see that the data for these products is sent in plaintext to and from their servers The API seems to have a valid cert and is listening over HTTPS - strange that the app client uses plaintext. curl https://api.petkt.com/ {"error":{"code":97,"msg":"App is out of date, please upgrade"}}
shapefrog 4y ago
Reverse Engineering the Reverse Engineered Cat Feeder to Boost Snacks while true: push
mgaunard 4y ago
why would you extend so much energy to eat more unhealthy junk?
- scotty79 4y ago
  Almonds in dark chocolate don't sound that junky
  - 6stringmerc 4y ago
    Chocolate supports endorphins too so it’s a good reward
  - layer8 4y ago
    According to the linked product page, they are 37% carbs (and 43% fat), so not too healthy if you eat a lot of them, but it could be worse.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
  This reduces the eating of unhealthy junk. Imagine if it was just an open bag of these sitting by the computer.
- sshine 4y ago
  Almond chocolates aren’t unhealthy junk?
  - mgaunard 4y ago
    How American do you have to be to believe that something covered in milk chocolate is healthy?
    - sshine 4y ago
      I’m not assuming milk chocolate. :-) To answer your question: I think milk chocolate is about just as popular in Germany and the Nordic countries, so perhaps you don’t have to be very American. Chocolate and almonds are both quite healthy in the right doses. I mean the chocolate that’s isn’t mixed with methamphetamines, just to be absolutely clear. ;-)
stoneman24 4y ago
Just connect the reward to a good build and passing all the unit tests. Project management achieved. :)
- MayeulC 4y ago
  Yet another reason to have a quick test suite and build pipeline? I feel like having to wait for more than a few seconds to get the reward would remove the instant gratification our brains crave. That's an interesting setup. I could certainly use something like that: I'm writing my PhD manuscript, and depriving myself of rewards (hobbies) until I'm done, but it seems like my brain can't really understand long-term rewards instinctively. I already have a few hooks that compute the number of lines when I push a commit; I could see myself wiring this up to boil water for a tea, or something similar. Want to take a coffee break? Work a bit first! Avoids procrastinating to some extent, while adding some kind of gamification to the self-discipline (having only myself standing between me and the reward is sometimes not enough). Well, I guess I'll just pretend I have such an elaborate setup; and only build it once I'm done writing ;)
yrgulation 4y ago
Someone somewhere will steal the idea and make these available to human farms (euphemistically known as offices).
pharke 4y ago
I was just looking into this the other day. Nice to see someone do it. I wonder if making it more hackable by replacing the electronic guts with something like a ESP8266 would be worthwhile. I'd much rather be able to have a simple little server on this device that I can talk to over the network rather than having to go through some random company's servers. I imagine connecting it to the motor that turns the feeding mechanism wouldn't be too hard and the screen and buttons could simply be removed to prevent any, ahem, manual tampering. Adding some way to lock the food bin would also help with impulse control for those who need it. Another upgrade would be to randomly reward the desired behavior instead of always rewarding it. This helps to both prevent gaming the system as well as keeping those dopamine spikes high when you unexpectedly get some candy. Using chocolate as a reward is perfect since it provides tryamine to help replenish your dopamine levels.
- Brybry 4y ago
  Might be possible to use DNS to point api.petkt.com to a local webserver and rewrite the API? I can't imagine it has that many endpoints or that much logic. I would think the main issue would be potential encryption/authentication but if they're using plaintext HTTP for the phone app then maybe the feeders are using plaintext HTTP too...
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    If the device is using HTTPS, you'd need a valid certificate for that hostname - that's exactly the attack HTTPS is designed to defend against. And if they're using certificate pinning, it can't even be any certificate from a trusted authority, it has to be one particular authority or even that specific certificate that they use (they could very well be using an internal CA for this, as they control the other end of the connection).
    - KMnO4 4y ago
      From the article: > You'll see that the data for these products is sent in plaintext to and from their servers... No HTTPS... That's just sketchy.
layer8 4y ago
By mixing the chocolate almonds with a larger amount of less desirable snacks, one could get the lootbox effect of “just one more commit”.
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  When I have a bunch of friends over for coffee, we like to play "Moroccan Roulette" by tossing a chunk of hash into the automatic coffee machine's bean grinder hopper. Probably a good thing I work at home and not in an office.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    Isn't THC not really bioavailable when eaten in hash form?
    - throwanem 4y ago
      If you're grinding beans for coffee, it'd end up in the filter basket or whatever and get hot-water extracted, right? I don't see how it necessarily qualifies as "roulette", but I bet everybody has a real good time.
      - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
        My guess is that its one of those kind where most of your coffee is stored in the hopper, and they are only making singleton cups (pour over or cappuccino).
    - pigeons 4y ago
      Add some cream to your coffee.
csdvrx 4y ago
Tangent to the project: Nuts are good, but what about a healthier mix? Like wasabi covered almonds if you like almonds, or sunflower seeds (for trace minerals), walnuts, etc. They are high in carbs but provide many other things. On the tech side, it would be fun to be able to deliver just one for a lootbox effect ("when I get the walnut, I take a break") It could also be at specified intervals, to act like a pomodoro?
inetsee 4y ago
I was actually just thinking about a Tamagotchi-like program that required regular productive activities in order to keep a virtual pet alive, healthy and happy. A computer program would not need to deal with all that messy real world hardware; it would all be virtual. You could also add a function that makes your virtual pet unhappy if you spent too much time reading Hacker News. Instant productivity boost.
- jfim 4y ago
  There's this app for Android that's similar to the idea you mentioned. When you want to focus, you plant a tree in the app, and if you leave the app (eg. to browse the internet or check social media), the tree dies. If you focus for long enough, the tree grows to be a full one, and you can plant a forest. https://www.forestapp.cc/ https://www.forestapp.cc/
- grigri907 4y ago
  Habitica might scratch this itch to gamify your tasks. https://habitica.com/ https://habitica.com/
DonHopkins 4y ago
SNL really went downhill once they stopped using this effective productivity boosting technique, because Lorne was just too stingy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIcYkEIVdc&t=3m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIcYkEIVdc&t=3m23s
_Algernon_ 4y ago
I'd game this immediately: commit every character individually.
amelius 4y ago
That wouldn't work for me. Too hackable. I need at least something like this: https://www.thekitchensafe.com/pages/faq https://www.thekitchensafe.com/pages/faq
kramerger 4y ago
> They send your complete location too, which is further sketchy Why do they need your location in the first place? Can you run the app without GPS priviliges?

142 points by bubblehack3r 4y ago

neilv 4y ago

Fun hack. Though, for myself, I'd be afraid of breaking either my diet or my normal goal-directed work focus.

zeristor 4y ago

The tricky bit is trying to outwit yourself. Just opening the lid and delving in.

sshine 4y ago
As a person who eats all the candy in the house, I am very good at following rules also. E.g. “don’t buy candy” or “don’t eat someone else’s candy”. Maybe “only eat dispensed candy” isn’t a good rule to follow in itself, but I do wonder if the dopamine release associated with triggering the release of candy counts for more than the candy itself. :-)
- 6stringmerc 4y ago
  Haha this is a great reply and reminds me of how much I love Rube Goldberg machines! Simple outcome, complex process. The first thing that came to mind was Doc Brown’s automatic dog feeder for Einstein in the original Back to the Future.

rwestergren 4y ago

I was scratching my head on how he was capturing requests without mentioning a proxy cert, but then I saw the security note at the bottom. You'll see that the data for these products is sent in plaintext to and from their servers The API seems to have a valid cert and is listening over HTTPS - strange that the app client uses plaintext. curl https://api.petkt.com/ {"error":{"code":97,"msg":"App is out of date, please upgrade"}}

shapefrog 4y ago

Reverse Engineering the Reverse Engineered Cat Feeder to Boost Snacks while true: push

mgaunard 4y ago

why would you extend so much energy to eat more unhealthy junk?

scotty79 4y ago
Almonds in dark chocolate don't sound that junky
- 6stringmerc 4y ago
  Chocolate supports endorphins too so it’s a good reward
- layer8 4y ago
  According to the linked product page, they are 37% carbs (and 43% fat), so not too healthy if you eat a lot of them, but it could be worse.
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
This reduces the eating of unhealthy junk. Imagine if it was just an open bag of these sitting by the computer.
sshine 4y ago
Almond chocolates aren’t unhealthy junk?
- mgaunard 4y ago
  How American do you have to be to believe that something covered in milk chocolate is healthy?
  - sshine 4y ago
    I’m not assuming milk chocolate. :-) To answer your question: I think milk chocolate is about just as popular in Germany and the Nordic countries, so perhaps you don’t have to be very American. Chocolate and almonds are both quite healthy in the right doses. I mean the chocolate that’s isn’t mixed with methamphetamines, just to be absolutely clear. ;-)

stoneman24 4y ago

Just connect the reward to a good build and passing all the unit tests. Project management achieved. :)

MayeulC 4y ago
Yet another reason to have a quick test suite and build pipeline? I feel like having to wait for more than a few seconds to get the reward would remove the instant gratification our brains crave. That's an interesting setup. I could certainly use something like that: I'm writing my PhD manuscript, and depriving myself of rewards (hobbies) until I'm done, but it seems like my brain can't really understand long-term rewards instinctively. I already have a few hooks that compute the number of lines when I push a commit; I could see myself wiring this up to boil water for a tea, or something similar. Want to take a coffee break? Work a bit first! Avoids procrastinating to some extent, while adding some kind of gamification to the self-discipline (having only myself standing between me and the reward is sometimes not enough). Well, I guess I'll just pretend I have such an elaborate setup; and only build it once I'm done writing ;)

yrgulation 4y ago

Someone somewhere will steal the idea and make these available to human farms (euphemistically known as offices).

pharke 4y ago

I was just looking into this the other day. Nice to see someone do it. I wonder if making it more hackable by replacing the electronic guts with something like a ESP8266 would be worthwhile. I'd much rather be able to have a simple little server on this device that I can talk to over the network rather than having to go through some random company's servers. I imagine connecting it to the motor that turns the feeding mechanism wouldn't be too hard and the screen and buttons could simply be removed to prevent any, ahem, manual tampering. Adding some way to lock the food bin would also help with impulse control for those who need it. Another upgrade would be to randomly reward the desired behavior instead of always rewarding it. This helps to both prevent gaming the system as well as keeping those dopamine spikes high when you unexpectedly get some candy. Using chocolate as a reward is perfect since it provides tryamine to help replenish your dopamine levels.

Brybry 4y ago
Might be possible to use DNS to point api.petkt.com to a local webserver and rewrite the API? I can't imagine it has that many endpoints or that much logic. I would think the main issue would be potential encryption/authentication but if they're using plaintext HTTP for the phone app then maybe the feeders are using plaintext HTTP too...
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  If the device is using HTTPS, you'd need a valid certificate for that hostname - that's exactly the attack HTTPS is designed to defend against. And if they're using certificate pinning, it can't even be any certificate from a trusted authority, it has to be one particular authority or even that specific certificate that they use (they could very well be using an internal CA for this, as they control the other end of the connection).
  - KMnO4 4y ago
    From the article: > You'll see that the data for these products is sent in plaintext to and from their servers... No HTTPS... That's just sketchy.

layer8 4y ago

By mixing the chocolate almonds with a larger amount of less desirable snacks, one could get the lootbox effect of “just one more commit”.

DonHopkins 4y ago
When I have a bunch of friends over for coffee, we like to play "Moroccan Roulette" by tossing a chunk of hash into the automatic coffee machine's bean grinder hopper. Probably a good thing I work at home and not in an office.
- malermeister 4y ago
  Isn't THC not really bioavailable when eaten in hash form?
  - throwanem 4y ago
    If you're grinding beans for coffee, it'd end up in the filter basket or whatever and get hot-water extracted, right? I don't see how it necessarily qualifies as "roulette", but I bet everybody has a real good time.
    - RosanaAnaDana 4y ago
      My guess is that its one of those kind where most of your coffee is stored in the hopper, and they are only making singleton cups (pour over or cappuccino).
  - pigeons 4y ago
    Add some cream to your coffee.

csdvrx 4y ago

Tangent to the project: Nuts are good, but what about a healthier mix? Like wasabi covered almonds if you like almonds, or sunflower seeds (for trace minerals), walnuts, etc. They are high in carbs but provide many other things. On the tech side, it would be fun to be able to deliver just one for a lootbox effect ("when I get the walnut, I take a break") It could also be at specified intervals, to act like a pomodoro?

inetsee 4y ago

I was actually just thinking about a Tamagotchi-like program that required regular productive activities in order to keep a virtual pet alive, healthy and happy. A computer program would not need to deal with all that messy real world hardware; it would all be virtual. You could also add a function that makes your virtual pet unhappy if you spent too much time reading Hacker News. Instant productivity boost.

jfim 4y ago
There's this app for Android that's similar to the idea you mentioned. When you want to focus, you plant a tree in the app, and if you leave the app (eg. to browse the internet or check social media), the tree dies. If you focus for long enough, the tree grows to be a full one, and you can plant a forest. https://www.forestapp.cc/ https://www.forestapp.cc/
grigri907 4y ago
Habitica might scratch this itch to gamify your tasks. https://habitica.com/ https://habitica.com/

DonHopkins 4y ago

SNL really went downhill once they stopped using this effective productivity boosting technique, because Lorne was just too stingy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIcYkEIVdc&t=3m23s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIcYkEIVdc&t=3m23s

_Algernon_ 4y ago

I'd game this immediately: commit every character individually.

amelius 4y ago

That wouldn't work for me. Too hackable. I need at least something like this: https://www.thekitchensafe.com/pages/faq https://www.thekitchensafe.com/pages/faq

kramerger 4y ago

> They send your complete location too, which is further sketchy Why do they need your location in the first place? Can you run the app without GPS priviliges?