7 ms·

Well, one has to admit that Ukraine’s media strategy is top notch.

anonAndOn 4y ago
It's remarkable. Between the myriad international and domestic crowdsourcing events (eg, Bayrakter TB2s [0][1], a Tank [2], lots of Drones [3], First Aid kits [4], etc), the postage stamp [5] and the Foreign Minister doing international late night talk shows[6], they've set the bar for Global PR tactics of an invaded country. [0]https://zrzutka.pl/bayraktar https://zrzutka.pl/bayraktar [1]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lithuania-transfer-crowdfunded-bayraktar-drone-ukraine-wednesday-2022-07-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lithuania-transfer-crow... [2]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-citizens-raise-13-mln-modernised-tank-ukraine-2022-10-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-citizens-raise-13... [3]https://u24.gov.ua/dronation https://u24.gov.ua/dronation [4]https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1578207951365480448 https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1578207951365480448 [5]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/ukraine-reveals-russian-warship-go-fuck-yourself-postage-stamp https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/ukraine-reveal... [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjUHY2XgIxE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjUHY2XgIxE
- app4soft 4y ago
  Also, do not forget about the Ukrainian meme forces[0] & North Atlantic Fellas Organization[1] on Twitter, Reddit, etc.[2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12] [0] https://war.ukraine.ua/country-and-society/ukrainian-meme-forces-what-makes-us-laugh-in-the-times-of-russia-s-invasion/ https://war.ukraine.ua/country-and-society/ukrainian-meme-fo... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFO_(group) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFO_(group) [2] https://www.cyberscoop.com/nafo-fellas-and-their-memes-ukraine/ https://www.cyberscoop.com/nafo-fellas-and-their-memes-ukrai... [3] https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-defeated-russia-204588 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-... [4] https://www.coffeeordie.com/ukraine-war-memes https://www.coffeeordie.com/ukraine-war-memes [5] https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-defeated-russia-204588 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-... [6] https://www.boredpanda.com/ukraine-support-memes/ https://www.boredpanda.com/ukraine-support-memes/ [7] https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/9/6/ukraine-latest-weapon-in-the-war-jokes https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/9/6/ukraine-latest-w... [8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/18/ukraine-war-meme-fundraising/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/18/ukraine-war-... [9] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/world/middleeast/ukraine-memes-russia-fundraising.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/world/middleeast/ukraine-... [10] http://www.zhu.edu.ua/journal_cpu/index.php/der_sc/article/view/903 http://www.zhu.edu.ua/journal_cpu/index.php/der_sc/article/v... [11] https://mwi.usma.edu/on-trolls-and-nuclear-signaling-strategic-stability-in-the-age-of-memes/ https://mwi.usma.edu/on-trolls-and-nuclear-signaling-strateg... [12] https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin-ukraine-twitter-trolling-social-media-meme/ https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin...
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  It's possible they literally have a top-tier PR firm working on it. Maybe more than one. Not to discount the possibility that they've simply knocked this out of the park themselves, but the "West" sure seems to be providing them a lot of soft support in addition to equipment, and some of that might be that kind of thing (I'm assuming Ukraine wouldn't be paying such a bill themselves, under these circumstances). The US government has been known to engage Madison Avenue & co. themselves, including for war-propaganda purposes, and not in the distant past.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - podviaznikov 4y ago
    come on. everything is possible theoretically. is it less possible that regular people do this on their own than people do it because of some PR company and US government support? you think it’s unlikely to have one adequate foreign minister and crowdfunding campaigns?
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      I'd put the likelihood well over "everything is possible theoretically" territory. Though of course it's also possible that it was 100% home-grown and Ukraine's schooling the whole world on how this should be done, before a live studio audience.
  - tpmx 4y ago
    Perhaps that's happening in the US, no idea. I would imagine that this would focus on media messaging in the US. From a European perspective, the online 'propaganda' has a very distinctively Ukranian, genuine and non-american feel to it.
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Not necessarily US firms. And making it feel authentic could just mean they didn't fuck up. Again, I'm not saying the Ukrainians didn't do this themselves. They may have. Or there may be some obscure books few people read in 30 years that tell the story of the companies NATO paid to prep the Ukrainians to win the propaganda war. I'm pro-Ukraine (of course?) but I doubt there's anyone who's dipped more than a toe into poli sci and international studies who's not had this through cross their mind, on seeing how fast, consistent, excellent, and on-all-fronts Ukraine's public information warfare has been. It's not exactly a way-out-there possibility. And if they did it's not like that's necessarily a bad thing. Just... don't be surprised if there are some pieces about how much more there was behind the scenes to make that happen, in Foreign Affairs or something, that only politics nerds will ever read, in a few years.
tpmx 4y ago
It's absolutely top notch. Here's something that got a lot of attention in Sweden yesterday: A small housing co-op/tenant-owner's association (BRF Vinkelhaken 12 in Stockholm) decided to donate $3500 to a Ukranian defense cause. In return they got a video showing a signed shell being fired towards the invaders at the front. Of course something like this will go viral in the source country because of the sheer absurdity of a co-op building "arming" a country being invaded by Russia. Genius. Screenshot: https://static.cdn-expressen.se/images/00/b5/00b54a16e2314e6da7fbe4ab27fb7c1f/16x9/1280@80.jpg https://static.cdn-expressen.se/images/00/b5/00b54a16e2314e6...
- okasaki 4y ago
  Surely I'm not the only one who finds that disgusting?
  - tpmx 4y ago
    You're disgusted by volunteer financing of Ukraine's defense against the Russian invasion? That is either ignorant or evil, IMO. The $3500 supposedly formally paid for logistical supplies, not the shell (it should be cheaper than that), but does the distinction really matter?
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    Personally I'm torn on this. And I'm not the only one. On the one hand, this means basically killing people. On the other hand, they are protecting their homeland, their homes, their families. So as a compromise I try to donate for civilian causes, not military. Although, frankly, I sometimes do wonder if I'm not a hypocrite. I want to defend the image of myself as a person who would never support killing. But in this case, it means innocent people will die attacked by Russians if everybody has the same outlook like me. So I have this doubt, and I don't believe is an easy decision for anyone in the West who really understands the consequences.
  - throwaway6734 4y ago
    What about it?
  - 4y ago
shadowgovt 4y ago
Among the many, many mistakes Putin made was picking a fight with someone with a great deal of professional entertainment experience. Modern wars are fought with blood, money, and message. Putin picked a fight with an opponent that is beating him on 1 and killing him on 3, and the international community is stepping up to provide 2 (partially because of how good Zelenskyy and his team have done on 3).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jdthedisciple 4y ago
  Putin - UNFORTUNATELY - already crushed all of EUs economies as his country thriving as never before. And that wasn't even his goal. I'm not sure who are the not-so-smart ones in Europe atm. Consider Germany buying gas off India (probably at a higher price than usual, haven't checked the numbers), which India got from Russia. Very smart. /s Mass uprisings are probably near. It will become awfully clear which Kaisers are actually naked. Hint: It's not gonna be Putin.
  - alrlroipsp 4y ago
    Hilarious.
    - jdthedisciple 4y ago
      Yea, I'm sure it's hilarious watching this insanity from outside the EU.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    I have friends in Russia who actually believe this. They think Russia is winning and the West is in utter chaos, and will soon fall. I saw advertisements on Russian TV showing how Europe is freezing and so on. Meanwhile one fifth of Russian households doesn't even have a toilet. They have a completely different mindset.
nalaz 4y ago
It’s interesting how much this depends on your bubble… most of the news I follow and people I know side with Russia or are at least extremely sceptic of nato/etc and from what I see everything is the opposite. This war has taught me that even though there is only one truth to everything it’s impossible to know it unless you are there to see it with your eyes.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  what is the opposite? the things you see are the opposite of what the Russia and nato skeptic side says?
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  I live in the other bubble and yours always puzzles me. How do the folks in your bubble justify a full-scale war against Ukraine? Do you find their explanations convincing? So far the justifications I heard are pretty weak, like Russians in Eastern Ukraine felt threatened or were worried they wouldn't be able to speak Russian. Do you personally find any of these sensible reasons for invading another country and effectively killing thousands of people?
  - nalaz 4y ago
    I don’t side with either country, I don’t care about them personally. I see this war the same way I’ve always seen wars in the Middle East: who gives a shit. I lament the incompetence of the eu in securing sources of energy for us, but I’ve always seen the eu as incompetent so this is hardly surprising.
    - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
      Yeah but you said most of the folks in your bubble side with Russia. So I'm curious what arguments people who support this cruel war have.
      - nalaz 4y ago
        Can’t really tell because I don’t pay much attention. It’s a proxy war between the us and Russia, the oblasts belong to Russia, Ukraine breached the Minsk treaty, Russia needs access to the sea to secure the country against the nato aggression, Ukraine massacres civilians… etc Nothing justifies the dead civilians but I guess war is war, what are you going to do.
Guthur 4y ago
It's more like UK and US intelligent services. You don't go from 0 to 100 in a few months.
throwoutway 4y ago
It's almost like satire, but it's real. Is there a word for a true parody?
- hrbf 4y ago
  A German word, “Realsatire” comes to mind. As you might guess from the words alone, it describes something so absurd, you wouldn’t believe it not to be an exaggeration if you didn’t experience it yourself.
  - throwoutway 4y ago
    Thank you! This is the word I wanted to use!

It's remarkable. Between the myriad international and domestic crowdsourcing events (eg, Bayrakter TB2s [0][1], a Tank [2], lots of Drones [3], First Aid kits [4], etc), the postage stamp [5] and the Foreign Minister doing international late night talk shows[6], they've set the bar for Global PR tactics of an invaded country. [0]https://zrzutka.pl/bayraktar https://zrzutka.pl/bayraktar [1]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lithuania-transfer-crowdfunded-bayraktar-drone-ukraine-wednesday-2022-07-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lithuania-transfer-crow... [2]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-citizens-raise-13-mln-modernised-tank-ukraine-2022-10-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czech-citizens-raise-13... [3]https://u24.gov.ua/dronation https://u24.gov.ua/dronation [4]https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1578207951365480448 https://twitter.com/ItsBorys/status/1578207951365480448 [5]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/ukraine-reveals-russian-warship-go-fuck-yourself-postage-stamp https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/12/ukraine-reveal... [6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjUHY2XgIxE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjUHY2XgIxE

app4soft 4y ago
Also, do not forget about the Ukrainian meme forces[0] & North Atlantic Fellas Organization[1] on Twitter, Reddit, etc.[2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12] [0] https://war.ukraine.ua/country-and-society/ukrainian-meme-forces-what-makes-us-laugh-in-the-times-of-russia-s-invasion/ https://war.ukraine.ua/country-and-society/ukrainian-meme-fo... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFO_(group) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAFO_(group) [2] https://www.cyberscoop.com/nafo-fellas-and-their-memes-ukraine/ https://www.cyberscoop.com/nafo-fellas-and-their-memes-ukrai... [3] https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-defeated-russia-204588 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-... [4] https://www.coffeeordie.com/ukraine-war-memes https://www.coffeeordie.com/ukraine-war-memes [5] https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-defeated-russia-204588 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-ukrainian-meme-war-... [6] https://www.boredpanda.com/ukraine-support-memes/ https://www.boredpanda.com/ukraine-support-memes/ [7] https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/9/6/ukraine-latest-weapon-in-the-war-jokes https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/9/6/ukraine-latest-w... [8] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/18/ukraine-war-meme-fundraising/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/18/ukraine-war-... [9] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/world/middleeast/ukraine-memes-russia-fundraising.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/world/middleeast/ukraine-... [10] http://www.zhu.edu.ua/journal_cpu/index.php/der_sc/article/view/903 http://www.zhu.edu.ua/journal_cpu/index.php/der_sc/article/v... [11] https://mwi.usma.edu/on-trolls-and-nuclear-signaling-strategic-stability-in-the-age-of-memes/ https://mwi.usma.edu/on-trolls-and-nuclear-signaling-strateg... [12] https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin-ukraine-twitter-trolling-social-media-meme/ https://www.politico.eu/article/nafo-doge-shiba-russia-putin...
yamtaddle 4y ago
It's possible they literally have a top-tier PR firm working on it. Maybe more than one. Not to discount the possibility that they've simply knocked this out of the park themselves, but the "West" sure seems to be providing them a lot of soft support in addition to equipment, and some of that might be that kind of thing (I'm assuming Ukraine wouldn't be paying such a bill themselves, under these circumstances). The US government has been known to engage Madison Avenue & co. themselves, including for war-propaganda purposes, and not in the distant past.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- podviaznikov 4y ago
  come on. everything is possible theoretically. is it less possible that regular people do this on their own than people do it because of some PR company and US government support? you think it’s unlikely to have one adequate foreign minister and crowdfunding campaigns?
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    I'd put the likelihood well over "everything is possible theoretically" territory. Though of course it's also possible that it was 100% home-grown and Ukraine's schooling the whole world on how this should be done, before a live studio audience.
- tpmx 4y ago
  Perhaps that's happening in the US, no idea. I would imagine that this would focus on media messaging in the US. From a European perspective, the online 'propaganda' has a very distinctively Ukranian, genuine and non-american feel to it.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Not necessarily US firms. And making it feel authentic could just mean they didn't fuck up. Again, I'm not saying the Ukrainians didn't do this themselves. They may have. Or there may be some obscure books few people read in 30 years that tell the story of the companies NATO paid to prep the Ukrainians to win the propaganda war. I'm pro-Ukraine (of course?) but I doubt there's anyone who's dipped more than a toe into poli sci and international studies who's not had this through cross their mind, on seeing how fast, consistent, excellent, and on-all-fronts Ukraine's public information warfare has been. It's not exactly a way-out-there possibility. And if they did it's not like that's necessarily a bad thing. Just... don't be surprised if there are some pieces about how much more there was behind the scenes to make that happen, in Foreign Affairs or something, that only politics nerds will ever read, in a few years.

tpmx 4y ago

It's absolutely top notch. Here's something that got a lot of attention in Sweden yesterday: A small housing co-op/tenant-owner's association (BRF Vinkelhaken 12 in Stockholm) decided to donate $3500 to a Ukranian defense cause. In return they got a video showing a signed shell being fired towards the invaders at the front. Of course something like this will go viral in the source country because of the sheer absurdity of a co-op building "arming" a country being invaded by Russia. Genius. Screenshot: https://static.cdn-expressen.se/images/00/b5/00b54a16e2314e6da7fbe4ab27fb7c1f/16x9/1280@80.jpg https://static.cdn-expressen.se/images/00/b5/00b54a16e2314e6...

okasaki 4y ago
Surely I'm not the only one who finds that disgusting?
- tpmx 4y ago
  You're disgusted by volunteer financing of Ukraine's defense against the Russian invasion? That is either ignorant or evil, IMO. The $3500 supposedly formally paid for logistical supplies, not the shell (it should be cheaper than that), but does the distinction really matter?
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  Personally I'm torn on this. And I'm not the only one. On the one hand, this means basically killing people. On the other hand, they are protecting their homeland, their homes, their families. So as a compromise I try to donate for civilian causes, not military. Although, frankly, I sometimes do wonder if I'm not a hypocrite. I want to defend the image of myself as a person who would never support killing. But in this case, it means innocent people will die attacked by Russians if everybody has the same outlook like me. So I have this doubt, and I don't believe is an easy decision for anyone in the West who really understands the consequences.
- throwaway6734 4y ago
  What about it?
- 4y ago

shadowgovt 4y ago

Among the many, many mistakes Putin made was picking a fight with someone with a great deal of professional entertainment experience. Modern wars are fought with blood, money, and message. Putin picked a fight with an opponent that is beating him on 1 and killing him on 3, and the international community is stepping up to provide 2 (partially because of how good Zelenskyy and his team have done on 3).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jdthedisciple 4y ago
Putin - UNFORTUNATELY - already crushed all of EUs economies as his country thriving as never before. And that wasn't even his goal. I'm not sure who are the not-so-smart ones in Europe atm. Consider Germany buying gas off India (probably at a higher price than usual, haven't checked the numbers), which India got from Russia. Very smart. /s Mass uprisings are probably near. It will become awfully clear which Kaisers are actually naked. Hint: It's not gonna be Putin.
- alrlroipsp 4y ago
  Hilarious.
  - jdthedisciple 4y ago
    Yea, I'm sure it's hilarious watching this insanity from outside the EU.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  I have friends in Russia who actually believe this. They think Russia is winning and the West is in utter chaos, and will soon fall. I saw advertisements on Russian TV showing how Europe is freezing and so on. Meanwhile one fifth of Russian households doesn't even have a toilet. They have a completely different mindset.

nalaz 4y ago

It’s interesting how much this depends on your bubble… most of the news I follow and people I know side with Russia or are at least extremely sceptic of nato/etc and from what I see everything is the opposite. This war has taught me that even though there is only one truth to everything it’s impossible to know it unless you are there to see it with your eyes.

yieldcrv 4y ago
what is the opposite? the things you see are the opposite of what the Russia and nato skeptic side says?
hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
I live in the other bubble and yours always puzzles me. How do the folks in your bubble justify a full-scale war against Ukraine? Do you find their explanations convincing? So far the justifications I heard are pretty weak, like Russians in Eastern Ukraine felt threatened or were worried they wouldn't be able to speak Russian. Do you personally find any of these sensible reasons for invading another country and effectively killing thousands of people?
- nalaz 4y ago
  I don’t side with either country, I don’t care about them personally. I see this war the same way I’ve always seen wars in the Middle East: who gives a shit. I lament the incompetence of the eu in securing sources of energy for us, but I’ve always seen the eu as incompetent so this is hardly surprising.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    Yeah but you said most of the folks in your bubble side with Russia. So I'm curious what arguments people who support this cruel war have.
    - nalaz 4y ago
      Can’t really tell because I don’t pay much attention. It’s a proxy war between the us and Russia, the oblasts belong to Russia, Ukraine breached the Minsk treaty, Russia needs access to the sea to secure the country against the nato aggression, Ukraine massacres civilians… etc Nothing justifies the dead civilians but I guess war is war, what are you going to do.

Guthur 4y ago

It's more like UK and US intelligent services. You don't go from 0 to 100 in a few months.

throwoutway 4y ago

It's almost like satire, but it's real. Is there a word for a true parody?

hrbf 4y ago
A German word, “Realsatire” comes to mind. As you might guess from the words alone, it describes something so absurd, you wouldn’t believe it not to be an exaggeration if you didn’t experience it yourself.
- throwoutway 4y ago
  Thank you! This is the word I wanted to use!