4 ms·

But I think that this is a core difference between an encyclopaedia and a textbook. If you need the topics presented in an order that takes you from a certain l

by GTP 4y ago

But I think that this is a core difference between an encyclopaedia and a textbook. If you need the topics presented in an order that takes you from a certain level of understanding to the next, you need a textbook.

Dylan16807 4y ago
Well that's the problem. An encyclopedia should neither provide nor need such an ordering. But Wikipedia often does need it, while also not providing it, the worst of both worlds.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  Wikipedia math has competition and they are generally much harsher than Wikipedia, which indicates the direction which communities of volunteers wish to go when they disagree with Wikipedia's execution. https://ncatlab.org/ https://ncatlab.org/ https://kerodon.net/ https://kerodon.net/ https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/ https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/ The people who are looking up references to advanced math concepts are likely students who are already on a mainstream pedagogical pathway and are looking to fill in holes to a concept map they're already building. The use case of someone who (1) does not wish to consult the vast and well-discussed pedagogy of math and (2) is not an advanced math student and thus wishes to have stand-alone math definitions is a Very special case.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > Wikipedia math has competition and they are generally much harsher than Wikipedia, which indicates the direction which communities of volunteers wish to go when they disagree with Wikipedia's execution. Okay, but I don't think those communities are relevant to this conversation. > The use case of someone who (1) does not wish to consult the vast and well-discussed pedagogy of math and (2) is not an advanced math student and thus wishes to have stand-alone math definitions is a Very special case. Number 1 is a weird assumption! Unless by "consult" you mean spend weeks studying a textbook, the problem is that consulting is too difficult! And if I understand "harsher" correctly you just said the other sites are harder to use, didn't you? So then it's just "not an advanced math student", which may or may not be a majority of people on these pages but it's a very significant amount and it's the more important target for a general encyclopedia.

by GTP 4y ago

Dylan16807 4y ago

Well that's the problem. An encyclopedia should neither provide nor need such an ordering. But Wikipedia often does need it, while also not providing it, the worst of both worlds.

threatofrain 4y ago
Wikipedia math has competition and they are generally much harsher than Wikipedia, which indicates the direction which communities of volunteers wish to go when they disagree with Wikipedia's execution. https://ncatlab.org/ https://ncatlab.org/ https://kerodon.net/ https://kerodon.net/ https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/ https://stacks.math.columbia.edu/ The people who are looking up references to advanced math concepts are likely students who are already on a mainstream pedagogical pathway and are looking to fill in holes to a concept map they're already building. The use case of someone who (1) does not wish to consult the vast and well-discussed pedagogy of math and (2) is not an advanced math student and thus wishes to have stand-alone math definitions is a Very special case.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > Wikipedia math has competition and they are generally much harsher than Wikipedia, which indicates the direction which communities of volunteers wish to go when they disagree with Wikipedia's execution. Okay, but I don't think those communities are relevant to this conversation. > The use case of someone who (1) does not wish to consult the vast and well-discussed pedagogy of math and (2) is not an advanced math student and thus wishes to have stand-alone math definitions is a Very special case. Number 1 is a weird assumption! Unless by "consult" you mean spend weeks studying a textbook, the problem is that consulting is too difficult! And if I understand "harsher" correctly you just said the other sites are harder to use, didn't you? So then it's just "not an advanced math student", which may or may not be a majority of people on these pages but it's a very significant amount and it's the more important target for a general encyclopedia.