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How many software developers do you think can work in a kitchen? Or clean houses? Or work on construction?

by tonnydourado 4y ago

snapcaster 4y ago
Probably almost all of them right?
- danaris 4y ago
  Work in a kitchen: Maybe. Actually do a good job, walking in off the street? Nope. There are dozens of things you need to know and be able to do to work well in a kitchen—and those things change depending on what kind of kitchen it is, but one of them that doesn't change is clear, fast, in-person communication, including doing what you're told instantly. A software developer going into a kitchen job and thinking they're hot shit because they're coming from a "skilled job" and this is an "unskilled job" is going to get themselves or someone else badly injured very quickly. Clean a house: Yeah, probably. Clean houses well enough to be paid for it: Probably not. Clean houses, well enough to be paid for it, 40 hours a week, for years: Very unlikely. That takes not just the skills to actually get each house professionally clean, but the mindset to be able to handle that sort of work for long periods. Work construction: Almost certainly not. While not all construction requires heavy lifting, most does, and most software developers are not in good enough physical shape to do that on a regular basis without doing serious damage to their bodies. Not to mention the care and precision required to build things that will both look good and last. Because "be able to do this job" doesn't just mean "has the basic understanding of how the mechanics of it work." It means understanding the details and nuances, being willing as well as able to do it for long periods of time, and being able to do it to a professional standard, not just "good enough for me".
  - ahtihn 4y ago
    Low skill is about whether you expect any experience or qualifications when filling positions. Some businesses are built around the fact that most of their workforce will be composed of untrained people with 0 qualifications and very high turnover. See Amazon warehouse jobs, most fast food places. Lots of retail jobs.
    - danaris 4y ago
      Sure; that's the reasonable way to talk about what "low skill" means. The problem is that too many people are still stuck in classist, neofeudal mindsets and equate "working in a low skill job" with "being an inferior person, not worthy of respect/dignity/decent wages/a comfortable life/etc".
  - orwin 4y ago
    You are right, but tbh, the first and the third are considered skilled jobs. My sister had a work visa opportunity to the US with her cooking skills (she chose another path in the end), and it was easier for her than it is for most SWE.
  - vinceguidry 4y ago
    > most software developers are not in good enough physical shape to do that on a regular basis without doing serious damage to their bodies That's reaching a bit. I worked construction for years before starting a software career. There's lots of construction jobs that don't require a whole lot of heavy lifting. In fact, there are probably more of them that don't than do. And you probably overestimate the lack of health of office workers.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tonnydourado 4y ago
  Not even in the same city of right.
N1H1L 4y ago
Absolutely true. This is where the privilege shows. I have helped friends run restaurants, and it's brutal and draining. And there is an enormous amount of pretty unique skills required to succesfully run a restaurant. And I am saying this as a scientist with a Ph.D. and multiple publications - the very definition of today's "skilled worker." The weird thing that has happened is the "collegification" of skills. Unless the job requires an undergrad or, even better, a graduate degree, it's apparently not skillful.

How many software developers do you think can work in a kitchen? Or clean houses? Or work on construction?

snapcaster 4y ago

Probably almost all of them right?

danaris 4y ago
Work in a kitchen: Maybe. Actually do a good job, walking in off the street? Nope. There are dozens of things you need to know and be able to do to work well in a kitchen—and those things change depending on what kind of kitchen it is, but one of them that doesn't change is clear, fast, in-person communication, including doing what you're told instantly. A software developer going into a kitchen job and thinking they're hot shit because they're coming from a "skilled job" and this is an "unskilled job" is going to get themselves or someone else badly injured very quickly. Clean a house: Yeah, probably. Clean houses well enough to be paid for it: Probably not. Clean houses, well enough to be paid for it, 40 hours a week, for years: Very unlikely. That takes not just the skills to actually get each house professionally clean, but the mindset to be able to handle that sort of work for long periods. Work construction: Almost certainly not. While not all construction requires heavy lifting, most does, and most software developers are not in good enough physical shape to do that on a regular basis without doing serious damage to their bodies. Not to mention the care and precision required to build things that will both look good and last. Because "be able to do this job" doesn't just mean "has the basic understanding of how the mechanics of it work." It means understanding the details and nuances, being willing as well as able to do it for long periods of time, and being able to do it to a professional standard, not just "good enough for me".
- ahtihn 4y ago
  Low skill is about whether you expect any experience or qualifications when filling positions. Some businesses are built around the fact that most of their workforce will be composed of untrained people with 0 qualifications and very high turnover. See Amazon warehouse jobs, most fast food places. Lots of retail jobs.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Sure; that's the reasonable way to talk about what "low skill" means. The problem is that too many people are still stuck in classist, neofeudal mindsets and equate "working in a low skill job" with "being an inferior person, not worthy of respect/dignity/decent wages/a comfortable life/etc".
- orwin 4y ago
  You are right, but tbh, the first and the third are considered skilled jobs. My sister had a work visa opportunity to the US with her cooking skills (she chose another path in the end), and it was easier for her than it is for most SWE.
- vinceguidry 4y ago
  > most software developers are not in good enough physical shape to do that on a regular basis without doing serious damage to their bodies That's reaching a bit. I worked construction for years before starting a software career. There's lots of construction jobs that don't require a whole lot of heavy lifting. In fact, there are probably more of them that don't than do. And you probably overestimate the lack of health of office workers.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tonnydourado 4y ago
Not even in the same city of right.

N1H1L 4y ago

Absolutely true. This is where the privilege shows. I have helped friends run restaurants, and it's brutal and draining. And there is an enormous amount of pretty unique skills required to succesfully run a restaurant. And I am saying this as a scientist with a Ph.D. and multiple publications - the very definition of today's "skilled worker." The weird thing that has happened is the "collegification" of skills. Unless the job requires an undergrad or, even better, a graduate degree, it's apparently not skillful.