6 ms·

Here's an article on it: https://torrentfreak.com/deciphering-youtubes-rolling-cypher-in-your-browser-is-a-piece-of-cake-201030/ https://torrentfreak.com/deciph

Here's an article on it: https://torrentfreak.com/deciphering-youtubes-rolling-cypher-in-your-browser-is-a-piece-of-cake-201030/ https://torrentfreak.com/deciphering-youtubes-rolling-cypher... Youtube requires a certain parameter set. They send you the parameter with the webpage. The interpretation that this is some kind of meaningful control seems like a bit of a fraud upon the court.

leereeves 4y ago
I wouldn't say "fraud". I think it's similar to the legal reasoning that says it's still a crime to open and enter a locked door even if the key is "hidden" on top of the door.
- mindslight 4y ago
  Except that it generally isn't a crime to open and enter a locked door when you own the door, which is closer to the situation we're talking about here.
- ensignavenger 4y ago
  It a crime to enter an unlocked door, or even to walk into a building with no door at all, uninvited. This is a very different thing than visiting a public website.
  - leereeves 4y ago
    We're not talking about merely "visiting" a public website.
    - iovrthoughtthis 4y ago
      searching for a distinction between actively controlling a gui client vs passively controlling a interface-less client?
      - leereeves 4y ago
        The distinction is in the intention of the designers, and the expected behavior of an average person, and both matter to the court. Hackers tend to overemphasize the technical aspects of an issue, whereas courts mostly care about the human aspects.
- saghm 4y ago
  If someone mailed me their key along with a letter saying "I want you to go into my house and take my DVD of season 1 of the Sopranos and you can watch it at your home for the next week, but then you have to throw it in the garbage", is it illegal for me to do what they say but then not throw it in the garbage?
  - freejazz 4y ago
    Right, but that's not how the key is sent in this circumstance...
    - saghm 4y ago
      The hypothetical I gave was meant to extent the previous one. My personal take on it is that it's not so much a door to someone else's property as a locked box mailed to you along with a key, and instructions that say you have to put the DVD back in the box as soon as you're done watching, and after a week you have to throw away the key.
      - freejazz 4y ago
        Weird - when I watch youtube videos, it doesn't say anything like that.
        saghm 4y ago
        Since you're obviously used to taking everything absolutely literally, I'd suggest using a screen reader if you want to hear the terms and conditions said out loud. Otherwise, you have to read them.
  - GabeIsko 4y ago
    At the end of the day, no matter what the analogy is, there is no logic-ing your way through this. The reality is that the RIAA lobbies to have laws that protect their intellectual property, even at the cost of consumer rights. The RIAA would make what you just said illegal if they could.
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  That's a bad example because it's still a crime to open and enter an unlocked door. It's a misrepresentation because the law requires the protection to be effective. If I mail you a locked box alongside the key, the lock cannot be reasonably described as "effective" in terms of controlling your access.
  - slowmovintarget 4y ago
    Except that's not what effective means in the context of the DMCA. If "effective" mechanisms existed in that sense (they don't), there would be no need for the law. Effective in the DMCA sense means "intended to have the effect of..." it does not mean the mechanisms have to be foolproof. This is also why the DMCA is a bad law, because it harms legitimate use while doing almost nothing to actual cases of piracy.
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      That's not a compelling rationalization. For example: What is the intended effect of this mechanism?
RunSet 4y ago
A browser extension that uses that method to add a "download" button to Youtube videos alongside the upvote / downvote buttons seems like a useful thing.
- leereeves 4y ago
  Useful, yes, but the author would be violating the DMCA and the extension would be banned.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- rolph 4y ago
  i use a ^very^ outdated browser version for consuming videos. just right click and select download video and it works, as is, no hacking, no dev mode, no editing URL parameters.

leereeves 4y ago

I wouldn't say "fraud". I think it's similar to the legal reasoning that says it's still a crime to open and enter a locked door even if the key is "hidden" on top of the door.

mindslight 4y ago
Except that it generally isn't a crime to open and enter a locked door when you own the door, which is closer to the situation we're talking about here.
ensignavenger 4y ago
It a crime to enter an unlocked door, or even to walk into a building with no door at all, uninvited. This is a very different thing than visiting a public website.
- leereeves 4y ago
  We're not talking about merely "visiting" a public website.
  - iovrthoughtthis 4y ago
    searching for a distinction between actively controlling a gui client vs passively controlling a interface-less client?
    - leereeves 4y ago
      The distinction is in the intention of the designers, and the expected behavior of an average person, and both matter to the court. Hackers tend to overemphasize the technical aspects of an issue, whereas courts mostly care about the human aspects.
saghm 4y ago
If someone mailed me their key along with a letter saying "I want you to go into my house and take my DVD of season 1 of the Sopranos and you can watch it at your home for the next week, but then you have to throw it in the garbage", is it illegal for me to do what they say but then not throw it in the garbage?
- freejazz 4y ago
  Right, but that's not how the key is sent in this circumstance...
  - saghm 4y ago
    The hypothetical I gave was meant to extent the previous one. My personal take on it is that it's not so much a door to someone else's property as a locked box mailed to you along with a key, and instructions that say you have to put the DVD back in the box as soon as you're done watching, and after a week you have to throw away the key.
    - freejazz 4y ago
      Weird - when I watch youtube videos, it doesn't say anything like that.
      - saghm 4y ago
        Since you're obviously used to taking everything absolutely literally, I'd suggest using a screen reader if you want to hear the terms and conditions said out loud. Otherwise, you have to read them.
- GabeIsko 4y ago
  At the end of the day, no matter what the analogy is, there is no logic-ing your way through this. The reality is that the RIAA lobbies to have laws that protect their intellectual property, even at the cost of consumer rights. The RIAA would make what you just said illegal if they could.
throwaway09223 4y ago
That's a bad example because it's still a crime to open and enter an unlocked door. It's a misrepresentation because the law requires the protection to be effective. If I mail you a locked box alongside the key, the lock cannot be reasonably described as "effective" in terms of controlling your access.
- slowmovintarget 4y ago
  Except that's not what effective means in the context of the DMCA. If "effective" mechanisms existed in that sense (they don't), there would be no need for the law. Effective in the DMCA sense means "intended to have the effect of..." it does not mean the mechanisms have to be foolproof. This is also why the DMCA is a bad law, because it harms legitimate use while doing almost nothing to actual cases of piracy.
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    That's not a compelling rationalization. For example: What is the intended effect of this mechanism?

RunSet 4y ago

A browser extension that uses that method to add a "download" button to Youtube videos alongside the upvote / downvote buttons seems like a useful thing.

leereeves 4y ago
Useful, yes, but the author would be violating the DMCA and the extension would be banned.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rolph 4y ago
i use a ^very^ outdated browser version for consuming videos. just right click and select download video and it works, as is, no hacking, no dev mode, no editing URL parameters.