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Wouldn't the responsibility of the government representatives be to represent the opinion of the people at the time? I wouldn't be surprised if in 1973 most Ame

Wouldn't the responsibility of the government representatives be to represent the opinion of the people at the time? I wouldn't be surprised if in 1973 most Americans were also totally onboard with criminalizing possession of drugs. And similarly now the opinion of the people has shifted, so the government representatives are adopting policies that match up with today's opinion. I'm not saying this to defend any particular person you referenced, just that the logic of saying that in the past someone was against something and now they're for it isn't necessarily hypocrisy, or false pretense. If the opinion of the people they represent also changed and at both times were respected, that seems to be a great example of a functioning republic no?

roenxi 4y ago
Theoretically? Sure, that works. I have some respect for it. As a practical matter, I don't think the US was ever in favour of locking a bunch of people up, destroying lives for nothing and the uncomfortably racial nature of where the hammer fell. They could have used methods to deal with drugs that worked. Even if the conscious plan is to vote for a chimera, it still makes sense to vote for one that implements good long-term policies as well as bowing to short term expediency. If the policies as-implemented are so bad that he feels a need to pardon people for being charged under them, I can see why some people would be apoplectic at this bald-faced ploy. After some number of lives ruined by bad policy making, really these politicians should just resign. Although, again, I do think most people are making a show about it fright now are doing so for political reasons; there aren't a lot of people out there who care about principle. Any of the last 10 presidents would have done the same under similar circumstances.
- WesternWind 4y ago
  As a practical matter, I fear that your thoughts on this are at odds with the actual history of the US, the historical views of people here, and even with what a lot of folks think currently.
- camgunz 4y ago
  I should start out by saying this is a delightfully well-written post despite the serious subject matter, nice ;) I think you're giving mid-century Americans too much credit. I think they were widely ignorant of Black history and racial issues and really had no concept of institutional racism--of which the War on Drugs was certainly a scion. Crime--and let's consider all its racializations--was also pretty bad, and voters across races and political lines are generally in favor of full on human rights violations to get it under control [0]. [0]: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/16/212620886/the-shift-in-black-views-of-the-war-on-drugs https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/16/212620886...
- DonHopkins 4y ago
  Actually a whole hell of a lot of Americans are totally in favor of locking a bunch of people up, destroying lives for nothing, punishing people they hate, spreading diseases like HIV and COVID throughout their communities then withholding health care and clean needles and masks, and totally racist to the core. And it's always been that way. If you want to see a whole lot of people act truly apoplectic at a bald-face ploy, then just watch the MAGA mob's reaction to the earth-shattering life-changing fact that a fictional cartoon character named "Velma" finally came out as lesbian and fell in love. The left's reaction: Fans cheer as Velma is shown crushing on a woman in the new Scooby-Doo movie: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/05/1126838591/velma-lesbian-scooby-doo-gay https://www.npr.org/2022/10/05/1126838591/velma-lesbian-scoo... The right's reaction: Conservatives Are Now Freaking Out About [Spins Wheel] a Lesbian in ‘Scooby Doo’. The classic cartoon's Halloween special portrays Velma as queer, and right-wing pundits can't cope: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/conservatives-now-freaking-spins-wheel-181139928.html https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/conservatives-now-freaking-... FOX News Goes Through the Motions Proclaiming 'Scooby Doo' is Woke Because Velma is Gay: https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/fox-news-scooby-doo-velma-gay-woke-01gemfxnjdja https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/fox-news-scooby-doo-velma-g... Fox guest loses his mind over Scooby Doo’s Velma being gay & compares it to bestiality. He told Laura Ingraham that Velma being gay is "really offensive" to him because it "sexualizes" her. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/fox-guest-loses-mind-scooby-doos-velma-gay-compares-bestiality/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/fox-guest-loses-mind-sco... Edit: >These people exist, but they aren't deciding elections. You're absolutely wrong, and in denial of reality. The rest of your conclusions are based on believing a lie.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    These people exist, but they aren't deciding elections. Pretty much the formula for winning a US election is pro-peace, pro-equality, pro-positive-vision. People have been calling each other racist till they are blue in the face, but evidence that racism wins votes is thin on the ground. If the racists want to hide behind a war on drugs, they obviously don't think they have the numbers to carry racist policy. This undermines this idea that the voters wanted the policies that were implemented.
    - 4y ago
- didibus 4y ago
  > As a practical matter, I don't think the US was ever in favour of locking a bunch of people up, destroying lives for nothing and the uncomfortably racial nature of where the hammer fell To be honest, I have no clue, maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but also maybe that's not anything they predicted or thought to consider as second order effects in their opinion at the time. People's personal opinion are not always hours of deep analysis, reflections and evaluation. Often times, simplistic solutions win an opinion, I can very well see something as simplistic as: these drugs are a problem, let's make them all illegal and attach prison sentences to the sale and possession, problem solved! And a lot of people at the time, fearful of those drugs, not knowing much about them, and hearing what they do to people and who generally consumes them, just feeling like that's a great idea and being onboard with the policy. And now, people have seen those second order effect first hand, they've also learned more about those drugs, their nature, don't fear it as much, and so are now of a different opinion.

roenxi 4y ago

Theoretically? Sure, that works. I have some respect for it. As a practical matter, I don't think the US was ever in favour of locking a bunch of people up, destroying lives for nothing and the uncomfortably racial nature of where the hammer fell. They could have used methods to deal with drugs that worked. Even if the conscious plan is to vote for a chimera, it still makes sense to vote for one that implements good long-term policies as well as bowing to short term expediency. If the policies as-implemented are so bad that he feels a need to pardon people for being charged under them, I can see why some people would be apoplectic at this bald-faced ploy. After some number of lives ruined by bad policy making, really these politicians should just resign. Although, again, I do think most people are making a show about it fright now are doing so for political reasons; there aren't a lot of people out there who care about principle. Any of the last 10 presidents would have done the same under similar circumstances.

WesternWind 4y ago
As a practical matter, I fear that your thoughts on this are at odds with the actual history of the US, the historical views of people here, and even with what a lot of folks think currently.
camgunz 4y ago
I should start out by saying this is a delightfully well-written post despite the serious subject matter, nice ;) I think you're giving mid-century Americans too much credit. I think they were widely ignorant of Black history and racial issues and really had no concept of institutional racism--of which the War on Drugs was certainly a scion. Crime--and let's consider all its racializations--was also pretty bad, and voters across races and political lines are generally in favor of full on human rights violations to get it under control [0]. [0]: https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/16/212620886/the-shift-in-black-views-of-the-war-on-drugs https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/08/16/212620886...
DonHopkins 4y ago
Actually a whole hell of a lot of Americans are totally in favor of locking a bunch of people up, destroying lives for nothing, punishing people they hate, spreading diseases like HIV and COVID throughout their communities then withholding health care and clean needles and masks, and totally racist to the core. And it's always been that way. If you want to see a whole lot of people act truly apoplectic at a bald-face ploy, then just watch the MAGA mob's reaction to the earth-shattering life-changing fact that a fictional cartoon character named "Velma" finally came out as lesbian and fell in love. The left's reaction: Fans cheer as Velma is shown crushing on a woman in the new Scooby-Doo movie: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/05/1126838591/velma-lesbian-scooby-doo-gay https://www.npr.org/2022/10/05/1126838591/velma-lesbian-scoo... The right's reaction: Conservatives Are Now Freaking Out About [Spins Wheel] a Lesbian in ‘Scooby Doo’. The classic cartoon's Halloween special portrays Velma as queer, and right-wing pundits can't cope: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/conservatives-now-freaking-spins-wheel-181139928.html https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/conservatives-now-freaking-... FOX News Goes Through the Motions Proclaiming 'Scooby Doo' is Woke Because Velma is Gay: https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/fox-news-scooby-doo-velma-gay-woke-01gemfxnjdja https://www.thebiglead.com/posts/fox-news-scooby-doo-velma-g... Fox guest loses his mind over Scooby Doo’s Velma being gay & compares it to bestiality. He told Laura Ingraham that Velma being gay is "really offensive" to him because it "sexualizes" her. https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/fox-guest-loses-mind-scooby-doos-velma-gay-compares-bestiality/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/10/fox-guest-loses-mind-sco... Edit: >These people exist, but they aren't deciding elections. You're absolutely wrong, and in denial of reality. The rest of your conclusions are based on believing a lie.
- roenxi 4y ago
  These people exist, but they aren't deciding elections. Pretty much the formula for winning a US election is pro-peace, pro-equality, pro-positive-vision. People have been calling each other racist till they are blue in the face, but evidence that racism wins votes is thin on the ground. If the racists want to hide behind a war on drugs, they obviously don't think they have the numbers to carry racist policy. This undermines this idea that the voters wanted the policies that were implemented.
  - 4y ago
didibus 4y ago
> As a practical matter, I don't think the US was ever in favour of locking a bunch of people up, destroying lives for nothing and the uncomfortably racial nature of where the hammer fell To be honest, I have no clue, maybe they were, maybe they weren't, but also maybe that's not anything they predicted or thought to consider as second order effects in their opinion at the time. People's personal opinion are not always hours of deep analysis, reflections and evaluation. Often times, simplistic solutions win an opinion, I can very well see something as simplistic as: these drugs are a problem, let's make them all illegal and attach prison sentences to the sale and possession, problem solved! And a lot of people at the time, fearful of those drugs, not knowing much about them, and hearing what they do to people and who generally consumes them, just feeling like that's a great idea and being onboard with the policy. And now, people have seen those second order effect first hand, they've also learned more about those drugs, their nature, don't fear it as much, and so are now of a different opinion.