12 ms·

Electrochemical potential enables dormant spores to integrate enviro signals

109 points by respinal 4y ago

57FkMytWjyFu 4y ago
Bacteria count sheep in their sleep. Brilliant!
- kylebyproxy 4y ago
  _Electric_ sheep, even!
  - dylan604 4y ago
    So we're up to humans, androids, and now spores. The statisticians claim bullseye!
  - mellavora 4y ago
    yes, but they are counting them, not dreaming them. So the main question remains unanswered.
matthewmorgan 4y ago
Would be nice to read the whole article
- respinal 4y ago
  https://phys.org/news/2022-10-undead-dormant-bacteria-life.html https://phys.org/news/2022-10-undead-dormant-bacteria-life.h...
  - cyberbanjo 4y ago
    Seems like that is another different article about the paywalled one
    - respinal 4y ago
      Check at the bottom: "More information: Kaito Kikuchi et al, Electrochemical potential enables dormant spores to integrate environmental signals, Science (2022)"
    - dekhn 4y ago
      https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl7484 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl7484
oakwhiz 4y ago
Spore op-amps?
londons_explore 4y ago
'integrating' is a complex way of saying 'stuff leaks across a boundary slowly, and eventually when enough has leaked it triggers the spore to wake up'
- taneq 4y ago
  Nothing wrong with that, after all that’s how the good ol’ 555 timer works!
- taeric 4y ago
  Yeah, this feels dangerously close to claiming a woman's body is counting the months/days before they deliver a baby. And, to be fair, I think the actual research was more about modeling how it works. Not claiming that they count, per se. That is, just because you can model something mathematically, does not mean that the thing being modeled is the same as doing the math. Falling is not the same as calculating an equation, as it were.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    > That is, just because you can model something mathematically, does not mean that the thing being modeled is the same as doing the math. Falling is not the same as calculating an equation, as it were. This feels like a false dichotomy. The two calculations demonstrate essentially the same function, but one is performed using physical dynamics (the accumulation of something on one side of a boundary) implemented in an analog computer (overcoming an activation potential) and the other using an abstracted representation (program) implemented in a digital computer (transformations via mathematical analysis).
    - taeric 4y ago
      I wanted to say "but one isn't a calculation, per se. It is a physical process that can be modeled as a calculation." That said, I don't think I get the point you are driving to. Saying I have 1 apple and you give me another, is very akin to 1 + 1 = 2. Yet, calculating 1 + 1 = 2 in a computer is not "the same" as getting another apple in person. (And that is ignoring all of the data that is thrown away by "1 apple." How many grams/atoms/etc.?) I grant there is a fun view of reality being a simulation. But even then, there is a difference between simulating something, with all that implies in regards to data you have thrown out, and the thing you are simulating within that simulation. They may be equivalent in some consideration, but I find it a huge stretch to claim they are the same.
867-5309 4y ago
a strong contender for best headline of the year
- respinal 4y ago
  To be fair, I took it from the author and did some modifications. I think it was very clear how he described it. https://twitter.com/kaitochondria/status/1578083629334294529?s=20&t=YhDhJAWYquxhUHwDleS1EA https://twitter.com/kaitochondria/status/1578083629334294529...
  - sva_ 4y ago
    Thanks for the Twitter thread. That's a more digestible introduction to the paper.
blendergeek 4y ago
Please change the headline to "Electrochemical potential enables dormant spores to integrate environmental signals" per Hacker News guidelines. From the guidelines: > Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  That's past 80 characters, and I don't really think this is an interesting place to enforce the rules here — did your instincts tell you that HN readers are about to be bait-and-switched by the editorialized title?
  - KirillPanov 4y ago
    Counting is very different from integrating. Lots of stuff in biology integrates continuous signals. Discrete counting of discrete events is quite rare. In many senses you can compute with things that count discretely: Peano Arithmetic is undecidable. Yet unbounded dense linear orders (i.e. the theory of the rationals) are decidable, so you can't embed "program X halts" into them.
  - kazinator 4y ago
    "Dormant spores tally wakeup stimuli via EC potential"? Full disclosure: an important part of my job is fitting git commit messages to the 50 character rule.
- kingkawn 4y ago
  So too us and our actions are decisions.
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  That title is fucked. I prefer the English one.
enviclash 4y ago
This is a beautiful piece of Science! And please ignore those fighting about the title edits..

109 points by respinal 4y ago

57FkMytWjyFu 4y ago

Bacteria count sheep in their sleep. Brilliant!

kylebyproxy 4y ago
_Electric_ sheep, even!
- dylan604 4y ago
  So we're up to humans, androids, and now spores. The statisticians claim bullseye!
- mellavora 4y ago
  yes, but they are counting them, not dreaming them. So the main question remains unanswered.

matthewmorgan 4y ago

Would be nice to read the whole article

respinal 4y ago
https://phys.org/news/2022-10-undead-dormant-bacteria-life.html https://phys.org/news/2022-10-undead-dormant-bacteria-life.h...
- cyberbanjo 4y ago
  Seems like that is another different article about the paywalled one
  - respinal 4y ago
    Check at the bottom: "More information: Kaito Kikuchi et al, Electrochemical potential enables dormant spores to integrate environmental signals, Science (2022)"
  - dekhn 4y ago
    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl7484 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abl7484

oakwhiz 4y ago

Spore op-amps?

londons_explore 4y ago

'integrating' is a complex way of saying 'stuff leaks across a boundary slowly, and eventually when enough has leaked it triggers the spore to wake up'

taneq 4y ago
Nothing wrong with that, after all that’s how the good ol’ 555 timer works!
taeric 4y ago
Yeah, this feels dangerously close to claiming a woman's body is counting the months/days before they deliver a baby. And, to be fair, I think the actual research was more about modeling how it works. Not claiming that they count, per se. That is, just because you can model something mathematically, does not mean that the thing being modeled is the same as doing the math. Falling is not the same as calculating an equation, as it were.
- uoaei 4y ago
  > That is, just because you can model something mathematically, does not mean that the thing being modeled is the same as doing the math. Falling is not the same as calculating an equation, as it were. This feels like a false dichotomy. The two calculations demonstrate essentially the same function, but one is performed using physical dynamics (the accumulation of something on one side of a boundary) implemented in an analog computer (overcoming an activation potential) and the other using an abstracted representation (program) implemented in a digital computer (transformations via mathematical analysis).
  - taeric 4y ago
    I wanted to say "but one isn't a calculation, per se. It is a physical process that can be modeled as a calculation." That said, I don't think I get the point you are driving to. Saying I have 1 apple and you give me another, is very akin to 1 + 1 = 2. Yet, calculating 1 + 1 = 2 in a computer is not "the same" as getting another apple in person. (And that is ignoring all of the data that is thrown away by "1 apple." How many grams/atoms/etc.?) I grant there is a fun view of reality being a simulation. But even then, there is a difference between simulating something, with all that implies in regards to data you have thrown out, and the thing you are simulating within that simulation. They may be equivalent in some consideration, but I find it a huge stretch to claim they are the same.

867-5309 4y ago

a strong contender for best headline of the year

respinal 4y ago
To be fair, I took it from the author and did some modifications. I think it was very clear how he described it. https://twitter.com/kaitochondria/status/1578083629334294529?s=20&t=YhDhJAWYquxhUHwDleS1EA https://twitter.com/kaitochondria/status/1578083629334294529...
- sva_ 4y ago
  Thanks for the Twitter thread. That's a more digestible introduction to the paper.

blendergeek 4y ago

Please change the headline to "Electrochemical potential enables dormant spores to integrate environmental signals" per Hacker News guidelines. From the guidelines: > Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.

threatofrain 4y ago
That's past 80 characters, and I don't really think this is an interesting place to enforce the rules here — did your instincts tell you that HN readers are about to be bait-and-switched by the editorialized title?
- KirillPanov 4y ago
  Counting is very different from integrating. Lots of stuff in biology integrates continuous signals. Discrete counting of discrete events is quite rare. In many senses you can compute with things that count discretely: Peano Arithmetic is undecidable. Yet unbounded dense linear orders (i.e. the theory of the rationals) are decidable, so you can't embed "program X halts" into them.
- kazinator 4y ago
  "Dormant spores tally wakeup stimuli via EC potential"? Full disclosure: an important part of my job is fitting git commit messages to the 50 character rule.
kingkawn 4y ago
So too us and our actions are decisions.
anothernewdude 4y ago
That title is fucked. I prefer the English one.

enviclash 4y ago

This is a beautiful piece of Science! And please ignore those fighting about the title edits..