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Please don’t, unless you’re willing to confront your own contribution to the situation you’re fleeing. Wherever you go, there you are. As someone in Colorado

Please don’t, unless you’re willing to confront your own contribution to the situation you’re fleeing. Wherever you go, there you are. As someone in Colorado watching the influx of Californians with a dread and frustration over the past 10 years, the majority of newcomers seem to vote and live exactly like they did in CA, creating the exact same problems in CO that they ran from CA to escape.

jhpankow 4y ago
CA is the future. Transplants are just exporting it to your area.
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  Upvoted for truth Sighed deeply for it too
- sudden_dystopia 4y ago
  Sad but true
spaniard89277 4y ago
Watching from Spain, what do you mean "vote and live exactly like they did in CA"? Here in Spain more and more northern europeans come. I guess many of them are going to settle here (I get lots of questions about taxes and dealing with the spanish state, candid souls), so they contribute to the housing problem but I don't really see what they might import here that can worsen the situation besides their purchasing power. Also, being Sillicon Valley one of the most productive places on earth, why companies don't involve themselves in politics about housing and city planning? If I was some top head in such companies I woudl definitely consider it, as it goes directly against my floating line. If I manage to convince mayors that copying the netherlands onto the land around my offices I wouldn't need to pay so much and my engineers would be happier anyways. They are basically swimming in cash, so IDK, they are involved in politics anyway...
- danielvaughn 4y ago
  San Francisco is known for being one of the most progressive areas in the country, and there's a common belief that progressive government policies led to the situation they are now facing. Before anyone responds looking to argue, I'm not saying whether it's true or false, just stating that that's the perception.
  - tunesmith 4y ago
    Progressives cluster in dense areas (and/or perhaps density causes progressiveness), and density also causes greater NIMBYism. It doesn't necessarily follow that progressivism causes NIMBYism.
  - spaniard89277 4y ago
    I see. Is there overlap between "progressives" and "housing nimbys" in the US?
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Yes, both directly (NIMBYism is generally worse in liberal areas) and indirectly (density makes everything harder and more complicated).
    - kwillets 4y ago
      left-nimby's, as they're called, obstruct housing with price controls and other uneconomical demands on housing producers and buyers. Often they reject projects out-of-hand if they show any possibility of making a profit.
    - Tiktaalik 4y ago
      There's overlap of both progressives and NIMBYS and conservatives and NIMBYS. Just as there are progressive YIMBYS and "conservative" (usually labelled "market urbanist") YIMBYS. The left/right axis is inadequate to describe the dynamics of municipal politics. You need a second urbanist/conservationist axis to describe support or opposition for housing development.
  - 4y ago
m463 4y ago
I heard that exact same sentiment in the 1990s. I remember people in seattle complaining about people moving from california. (didn't check colorado at the time)
- betwixthewires 4y ago
  Yup, and look at Seattle now. You used to be able to buy a house in king county in the 90s for under 100k, an example of just one jarring change of many.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- whoosh3 4y ago
  When I lived in Colorado in the late 90s-early aughts, plenty of people complained about Californians and Texans moving there.
mosdl 4y ago
The truth is people vote the same everywhere, we see the same nimbyism in Texas for example for decades, its just now finally catching up with increasing population. Acting like all the issues are due to recent laws is a easy lie to fall for.
- icare_1er 4y ago
  No, people don't vote the same everywhere.
jlawson 4y ago
This is a complaint with all forms of migration where someone seeks to escape their bad living conditions. Generally those conditions are caused by the people who live in them - their culture and ways of thinking - even if they don't understand or can't acknowledge how. Many people want to escape the consequences of their own beliefs, but don't want to give up the beliefs themselves. Another example of, "You're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic."
- khazhoux 4y ago
  Their belief in this context is: “I would like to afford a house and be somewhere less crowded.” Would you advise these people should confront their belief system and the consequentiality of their agency that led them to this conclusion?
  - lazide 4y ago
    I think it's more that they're complaining that when everyone moves out to the sticks to be 'somewhere less crowded' - that place becomes crowded. Or at least more so. And that the reason why the original place was so crowded is because people like them wanted to all be there, and the politics and other things there are negatively perceived by the people who DIDN'T move there. Also, when everyone all the sudden starts buying homes in a previously not in demand are, the homes start getting difficult to afford, as demand is increasing. Especially for people who have been living there awhile already, and don't have the cash that the folks leaving the previously crowded areas have. I've personally seen this same cycle happen 3 times in California (and PNW/Texas).
chris11 4y ago
> Please don’t, unless you’re willing to confront your own contribution to the situation you’re fleeing. What do you mean? I've lived in Colorado and now live in California. Sure, it has serious problems but I'd say some of them are from population density. Millions of people living in small area causes issues. Housing prices? I'd want housing prices to go up if I owned. Taxes? That's a financial question, and the bay area offers world class comp in tech. Traffic? Also bad, but that's from attracting so many people. Crime and homelessness is a serious issue. But I don't think there are easy answers. I live in a safe area, and I would run into other political issues in different states.
kordlessagain 4y ago
That’s a lot of judgement to individuals without a lot of facts to back it up. If California is broken, it’s not from the people that live there or leave because they can’t stand it the way it is. If another place becomes that way, it isn’t the people coming there that causes it (other than from the population shift). Everything is crowded nowadays anyway, ant least in the cities. That’s an issue with there being more people in general.
icare_1er 4y ago
So true. In France, with Covid, many of the IT crowd moved from Paris to cities like Bordeaux or Nantes, much nicer destinations. They brought their votes with them. Those towns took a turn to the woke-left. Took barely a year to see it translate into higher crime, petty theft, etc. Now people are fleeing it again.
chasd00 4y ago
> the majority of newcomers seem to vote and live exactly like they did in CA same thing happened to Austin and is starting to happen in Dallas
itronitron 4y ago
If you think that is bad you should consider the influx that Colorado residents had to witness 170 years ago...
- hirundo 4y ago
  The natives were NIMBYs too, but the YIYBY settlers were more numerous and better armed.
fasteddie31003 4y ago
Trust me. We don't vote like how the rest of CA votes.
e40 4y ago
Seattle of the 80's and 90's comes to mind, when they hated having people move north from CA. They now have traffic jams in Seattle just like we do in SV.
lazide 4y ago
lol - that's like begging people to not cash a giant tax refund check to 'help the gov't'. I get that it causes angst in the destination, but that is the last thing on anyone's mind when they're considering such a disruptive life change. They're moving because they're miserable right now. That it might make someone else slightly uncomfortable politically later? And that's ignoring the whole 'no single raindrop causes the flood' issue. Beating up on any individual doesn't make a bit of difference. These changes are being driven by macro-economic shifts. On a side note, what is also likely contributing? Nasty, nasty air pollution 1/4 to 1/2 of the year in the SF bay area due to all the fires.
chaostheory 4y ago
What people who never lived in California don’t realize is that there are a lot of transplants from elsewhere. California natives tend to stay. The transplants do not. Many of these transplants tend to move back to their home state. Also many of them are not liberal, if that’s what you were hinting
stouset 4y ago
I'm amazed at how many new Californians we must be creating every year. Those leaving the state are doing so in numbers able to impact the housing market and political situation in seemingly every state, city, and town across the country. All while still increasing our population every year. Truly incredible.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Did you know Colorado actually receives more people from Texas than California? It doesn't really make sense, because California is 33% larger than Texas, but it's true. So you really should be blaming Texans more than Californians, and if they are ruining Colorado like they did Texas, you should call them out on it. https://stacker.com/colorado/states-sending-most-people-colorado https://stacker.com/colorado/states-sending-most-people-colo...

jhpankow 4y ago

CA is the future. Transplants are just exporting it to your area.

dmitrygr 4y ago
Upvoted for truth Sighed deeply for it too
sudden_dystopia 4y ago
Sad but true

spaniard89277 4y ago

Watching from Spain, what do you mean "vote and live exactly like they did in CA"? Here in Spain more and more northern europeans come. I guess many of them are going to settle here (I get lots of questions about taxes and dealing with the spanish state, candid souls), so they contribute to the housing problem but I don't really see what they might import here that can worsen the situation besides their purchasing power. Also, being Sillicon Valley one of the most productive places on earth, why companies don't involve themselves in politics about housing and city planning? If I was some top head in such companies I woudl definitely consider it, as it goes directly against my floating line. If I manage to convince mayors that copying the netherlands onto the land around my offices I wouldn't need to pay so much and my engineers would be happier anyways. They are basically swimming in cash, so IDK, they are involved in politics anyway...

danielvaughn 4y ago
San Francisco is known for being one of the most progressive areas in the country, and there's a common belief that progressive government policies led to the situation they are now facing. Before anyone responds looking to argue, I'm not saying whether it's true or false, just stating that that's the perception.
- tunesmith 4y ago
  Progressives cluster in dense areas (and/or perhaps density causes progressiveness), and density also causes greater NIMBYism. It doesn't necessarily follow that progressivism causes NIMBYism.
- spaniard89277 4y ago
  I see. Is there overlap between "progressives" and "housing nimbys" in the US?
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Yes, both directly (NIMBYism is generally worse in liberal areas) and indirectly (density makes everything harder and more complicated).
  - kwillets 4y ago
    left-nimby's, as they're called, obstruct housing with price controls and other uneconomical demands on housing producers and buyers. Often they reject projects out-of-hand if they show any possibility of making a profit.
  - Tiktaalik 4y ago
    There's overlap of both progressives and NIMBYS and conservatives and NIMBYS. Just as there are progressive YIMBYS and "conservative" (usually labelled "market urbanist") YIMBYS. The left/right axis is inadequate to describe the dynamics of municipal politics. You need a second urbanist/conservationist axis to describe support or opposition for housing development.
- 4y ago

m463 4y ago

I heard that exact same sentiment in the 1990s. I remember people in seattle complaining about people moving from california. (didn't check colorado at the time)

betwixthewires 4y ago
Yup, and look at Seattle now. You used to be able to buy a house in king county in the 90s for under 100k, an example of just one jarring change of many.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
whoosh3 4y ago
When I lived in Colorado in the late 90s-early aughts, plenty of people complained about Californians and Texans moving there.

mosdl 4y ago

The truth is people vote the same everywhere, we see the same nimbyism in Texas for example for decades, its just now finally catching up with increasing population. Acting like all the issues are due to recent laws is a easy lie to fall for.

icare_1er 4y ago
No, people don't vote the same everywhere.

jlawson 4y ago

This is a complaint with all forms of migration where someone seeks to escape their bad living conditions. Generally those conditions are caused by the people who live in them - their culture and ways of thinking - even if they don't understand or can't acknowledge how. Many people want to escape the consequences of their own beliefs, but don't want to give up the beliefs themselves. Another example of, "You're not stuck in traffic, you are traffic."

khazhoux 4y ago
Their belief in this context is: “I would like to afford a house and be somewhere less crowded.” Would you advise these people should confront their belief system and the consequentiality of their agency that led them to this conclusion?
- lazide 4y ago
  I think it's more that they're complaining that when everyone moves out to the sticks to be 'somewhere less crowded' - that place becomes crowded. Or at least more so. And that the reason why the original place was so crowded is because people like them wanted to all be there, and the politics and other things there are negatively perceived by the people who DIDN'T move there. Also, when everyone all the sudden starts buying homes in a previously not in demand are, the homes start getting difficult to afford, as demand is increasing. Especially for people who have been living there awhile already, and don't have the cash that the folks leaving the previously crowded areas have. I've personally seen this same cycle happen 3 times in California (and PNW/Texas).

chris11 4y ago

> Please don’t, unless you’re willing to confront your own contribution to the situation you’re fleeing. What do you mean? I've lived in Colorado and now live in California. Sure, it has serious problems but I'd say some of them are from population density. Millions of people living in small area causes issues. Housing prices? I'd want housing prices to go up if I owned. Taxes? That's a financial question, and the bay area offers world class comp in tech. Traffic? Also bad, but that's from attracting so many people. Crime and homelessness is a serious issue. But I don't think there are easy answers. I live in a safe area, and I would run into other political issues in different states.

kordlessagain 4y ago

That’s a lot of judgement to individuals without a lot of facts to back it up. If California is broken, it’s not from the people that live there or leave because they can’t stand it the way it is. If another place becomes that way, it isn’t the people coming there that causes it (other than from the population shift). Everything is crowded nowadays anyway, ant least in the cities. That’s an issue with there being more people in general.

icare_1er 4y ago

So true. In France, with Covid, many of the IT crowd moved from Paris to cities like Bordeaux or Nantes, much nicer destinations. They brought their votes with them. Those towns took a turn to the woke-left. Took barely a year to see it translate into higher crime, petty theft, etc. Now people are fleeing it again.

chasd00 4y ago

> the majority of newcomers seem to vote and live exactly like they did in CA same thing happened to Austin and is starting to happen in Dallas

itronitron 4y ago

If you think that is bad you should consider the influx that Colorado residents had to witness 170 years ago...

hirundo 4y ago
The natives were NIMBYs too, but the YIYBY settlers were more numerous and better armed.

fasteddie31003 4y ago

Trust me. We don't vote like how the rest of CA votes.

e40 4y ago

Seattle of the 80's and 90's comes to mind, when they hated having people move north from CA. They now have traffic jams in Seattle just like we do in SV.

lazide 4y ago

lol - that's like begging people to not cash a giant tax refund check to 'help the gov't'. I get that it causes angst in the destination, but that is the last thing on anyone's mind when they're considering such a disruptive life change. They're moving because they're miserable right now. That it might make someone else slightly uncomfortable politically later? And that's ignoring the whole 'no single raindrop causes the flood' issue. Beating up on any individual doesn't make a bit of difference. These changes are being driven by macro-economic shifts. On a side note, what is also likely contributing? Nasty, nasty air pollution 1/4 to 1/2 of the year in the SF bay area due to all the fires.

chaostheory 4y ago

What people who never lived in California don’t realize is that there are a lot of transplants from elsewhere. California natives tend to stay. The transplants do not. Many of these transplants tend to move back to their home state. Also many of them are not liberal, if that’s what you were hinting

stouset 4y ago

I'm amazed at how many new Californians we must be creating every year. Those leaving the state are doing so in numbers able to impact the housing market and political situation in seemingly every state, city, and town across the country. All while still increasing our population every year. Truly incredible.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

Did you know Colorado actually receives more people from Texas than California? It doesn't really make sense, because California is 33% larger than Texas, but it's true. So you really should be blaming Texans more than Californians, and if they are ruining Colorado like they did Texas, you should call them out on it. https://stacker.com/colorado/states-sending-most-people-colorado https://stacker.com/colorado/states-sending-most-people-colo...