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I read through their methods. I literally can't conceive how this is possible outside of incredibly weak minded people, or extended periods of physical and ment

I read through their methods. I literally can't conceive how this is possible outside of incredibly weak minded people, or extended periods of physical and mental abuse.

pflenker 4y ago
It’s actually easy. Just meet up with old friends, talk about ages long past and inject a meaningless, completely fabricated detail into your version of the story. Wait a bit, then meet again and do the same. Someone will bring up said detail and others will agree to it, most likely not even remembering that this detail did not actually happen and that they first heard about it from you, only very recently. The crucial point here is that they will actually remember it wrong.
- bjt2n3904 4y ago
  I've done this, though not intentionally. My friends puzzle with me for a moment, until one of three things happen: 1) We remember the event correctly, 2) I realize that I confused it with something else, or 3) I/we decide all of our memories are too poor to recall the event, and drop the matter. Edit: I've also had an employer press me quite hostilely about an event we remembered differently, as well -- and we were unable to reconcile with things like email. I simply refuse to say something that isn't true, or affirm something that I'm truly uncertain about.
  - cwillu 4y ago
    4) We remember the event incorrectly, which is indistinguishable from 1) without outside corroboration
    - bjt2n3904 4y ago
      I'll agree this is functionally indistinguishable from us remembering correctly, but we quickly veer into "if a tree falls into the forest, and no one is there to hear it" territory. Whatever claim you have that this happens is as equally valid as my claim that it has not. However, in my thirty some years, never has anyone come back to correct anything more than a minor detail. Not something major like, "actually, we all got arrested that night, we didn't get away".
      - pessimizer 4y ago
        > "if a tree falls into the forest, and no one is there to hear it" territory. It's important to note that this version of reality is the things don't matter if we don't notice them version. We're always in that area when we're talking about memory, until evidence one way or another shows up. Your confidence in your introspection could have create false memories in your friends. I've certainly had conversations with friends when someone thought they had first hand experience of something they were just told about and involved in a lot of conversations about. Because in a group of friends, they could have been there, they just happened to not be there that night. My mother tells me a story about a friend of hers who lied about being raped because she came home very late (and her father was abusive, and the excuse saved her from him.) In discussions with my mother years later, it became clear to my mother that she actually now believed she was raped. Not simply despite my mother's recall of how they walked around in the streets that night trying to come up with a story to tell her father, but my mother is actually in the false rape story and helped her get away.
Kranar 4y ago
I think you're likely closer to what's happening. The examples look pretty trivial and inconsequential; implanting a false memory of getting lost in a mall or having some ear infection when they were a very young child. Most likely the participants weighed arguing against these false memories versus not being confrontational and going along with the study. Try implanting a false memory of something of consequence, like a false memory that someone owes you 10 dollars or heck even 5 dollars, and then let's see just how easy it is to implant false memories into college aged students. Anyways, the actual study can be found here for free, and after reading it over it's quite underwhelming. For example, the study only says about 25% of participants ended up having false memories implanted after three interviews. https://blogs.brown.edu/recoveredmemory/files/2015/05/Loftus_Pickrell_PA_95.pdf https://blogs.brown.edu/recoveredmemory/files/2015/05/Loftus...
- stuckinhell 4y ago
  I find this explanation to be the most compelling by FAR. Humans are a social species, so we are hardwired to keep the peace as long as things are going well.
pessimizer 4y ago
It's good to learn from this that your personal introspection isn't as dependable as you think it is. Introspection is a liar.

I read through their methods. I literally can't conceive how this is possible outside of incredibly weak minded people, or extended periods of physical and mental abuse.

pflenker 4y ago

It’s actually easy. Just meet up with old friends, talk about ages long past and inject a meaningless, completely fabricated detail into your version of the story. Wait a bit, then meet again and do the same. Someone will bring up said detail and others will agree to it, most likely not even remembering that this detail did not actually happen and that they first heard about it from you, only very recently. The crucial point here is that they will actually remember it wrong.

bjt2n3904 4y ago
I've done this, though not intentionally. My friends puzzle with me for a moment, until one of three things happen: 1) We remember the event correctly, 2) I realize that I confused it with something else, or 3) I/we decide all of our memories are too poor to recall the event, and drop the matter. Edit: I've also had an employer press me quite hostilely about an event we remembered differently, as well -- and we were unable to reconcile with things like email. I simply refuse to say something that isn't true, or affirm something that I'm truly uncertain about.
- cwillu 4y ago
  4) We remember the event incorrectly, which is indistinguishable from 1) without outside corroboration
  - bjt2n3904 4y ago
    I'll agree this is functionally indistinguishable from us remembering correctly, but we quickly veer into "if a tree falls into the forest, and no one is there to hear it" territory. Whatever claim you have that this happens is as equally valid as my claim that it has not. However, in my thirty some years, never has anyone come back to correct anything more than a minor detail. Not something major like, "actually, we all got arrested that night, we didn't get away".
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      > "if a tree falls into the forest, and no one is there to hear it" territory. It's important to note that this version of reality is the things don't matter if we don't notice them version. We're always in that area when we're talking about memory, until evidence one way or another shows up. Your confidence in your introspection could have create false memories in your friends. I've certainly had conversations with friends when someone thought they had first hand experience of something they were just told about and involved in a lot of conversations about. Because in a group of friends, they could have been there, they just happened to not be there that night. My mother tells me a story about a friend of hers who lied about being raped because she came home very late (and her father was abusive, and the excuse saved her from him.) In discussions with my mother years later, it became clear to my mother that she actually now believed she was raped. Not simply despite my mother's recall of how they walked around in the streets that night trying to come up with a story to tell her father, but my mother is actually in the false rape story and helped her get away.

Kranar 4y ago

I think you're likely closer to what's happening. The examples look pretty trivial and inconsequential; implanting a false memory of getting lost in a mall or having some ear infection when they were a very young child. Most likely the participants weighed arguing against these false memories versus not being confrontational and going along with the study. Try implanting a false memory of something of consequence, like a false memory that someone owes you 10 dollars or heck even 5 dollars, and then let's see just how easy it is to implant false memories into college aged students. Anyways, the actual study can be found here for free, and after reading it over it's quite underwhelming. For example, the study only says about 25% of participants ended up having false memories implanted after three interviews. https://blogs.brown.edu/recoveredmemory/files/2015/05/Loftus_Pickrell_PA_95.pdf https://blogs.brown.edu/recoveredmemory/files/2015/05/Loftus...

stuckinhell 4y ago
I find this explanation to be the most compelling by FAR. Humans are a social species, so we are hardwired to keep the peace as long as things are going well.

pessimizer 4y ago

It's good to learn from this that your personal introspection isn't as dependable as you think it is. Introspection is a liar.