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I recently flew from Greece to London on an Australian passport and was able to utilize the same automated passport lanes as everyone else. It's amazing what a

I recently flew from Greece to London on an Australian passport and was able to utilize the same automated passport lanes as everyone else. It's amazing what a difference they make, I was off the plane and through customs in less than 30 minutes. The same system is used in Australia, NZ and I'm sure other countries too. It's a shame the same system can't (or won't) be adopted by the US.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
IIRC some airports have them in the US - legacy of a trial run maybe? Oh, I see they're removing them because they don't do facial recognition. That's weird though, our ones in NZ use facial recognition, have to scan your passport, and then step into the booth, and look at the camera. They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US.
- culturestate 4y ago
  > They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US Off the top of my head, Singapore and Japan do fingerprints for visitors at entry as well. Fingerprints are one of the biometrics[1] that can be stored on the chip in an e-passport, but most countries that are adding automated border control today use facial recognition since photos are universal. 1. Photo, fingerprints, and iris scan. Relatively few countries add fingerprints and I don’t think any country adds iris scans.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I've been photographed and fingerprinted in both Bulgaria and France when getting an ID card and passport (i don't know which one has which biometric, probably both have the same information).
    - culturestate 4y ago
      Yeah, I’m fairly sure all of the EEA adds fingerprints, and that this is the original reason that automated Schengen gates only accept EEA passports. When I say “relatively few” I mean on a global basis. ID cards are another matter, but I didn’t include them because most national ID cards can’t be used as international travel documents.
  - EdwardDiego 4y ago
    I didn't get fingerprinted in Singapore, but haven't been through Changi in six years, so could well be a new thing, or they just think Kiwis are harmless.
    - culturestate 4y ago
      Fingerprinting has been around for as long as Singapore has been using automated exit gates - you enroll your bios at a staffed lane on the way in and then use the auto gates on the way out - which I want to say is at least 10ish years. They’re moving everything to facial recognition and iris scan now. This is tangential to the topic of immigration clearance but my Singapore ID literally has my thumbprint printed on it, which I’ve always found hilarious.
      - EdwardDiego 4y ago
        Huh, that would've the time I was transiting through there, and left the airport a couple of times to explore the city, but never fingerprint scanned. Maybe the biometrics on my passport were sufficient already? NZ tends to be an early adopter of such things, as we make a great place to trial new tech, small market unafraid of new shiny.
- thenthenthen 4y ago
  Fingerprinting is also done in China and in EU we have a biometric passports, containing fingerprints (also residence permits and identity cards contain these).
dijonman2 4y ago
The problem with automated systems is the collection of biometric data. It’s far too invasive and is a perverse incentive to grow identification databases.
- snehk 4y ago
  The automated system collects the exact same data as the non-automated one.
  - djbebs 4y ago
    At a much lower cost to the state...
  - dijonman2 4y ago
    Negative, to enroll in Clear you must provide fingerprints. I’ve never been fingerprinted and travel regularly.
monksy 4y ago
I have no interest in using these gates and being forced into a face recognition data collection is pretty crappy.
- lp0_on_fire 4y ago
  You're going through facial recognition whether you like it or not. The agent behind the counter has cameras, too.
- tjomk 4y ago
  You have the right to queue for several hours and present your biometric passport to a human who will take your picture, save it to another database, and then visually compare that to your face.
  - _6hmp 4y ago
    In the US, returning US citizens have the right to re-enter without a photo or a fingerprint. It's a right I'd like to preserve, and that's getting increasingly harder to exercise as everything in the airport nudges passengers to automated systems with no obvious way to opt out. Obviously other countries have their own rules.
    - Someone 4y ago
      Have you ever tried refusing to show a passport? As far as I know, US citizens have the absolute right to enter its borders (https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/home.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/home.pdf), but whenever I read about that, I wonder how they go about that when a random stranger arrives at a border and claims to be a citizen. The best example I can find is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Worthy#Right_to_travel_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Worthy#Right_to_travel...: “He was able to return to the U.S. in October 1961, showing his birth certificate and vaccination record at Miami Airport” That’s decades ago, though, and he still showed something (but not something that realistically identified him) to get in.
      - 4y ago
stephen_g 4y ago
Yeah, they're very convenient. Annoyingly though the automated gates in the Schengen area (much of continental Europe) only allow EU/EEA passports though.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  I got to queue behind some _very_ pissed off Brits in the non-EU queue post Brexit. It was rather amusing, in a shameful way.
Lio 4y ago
Yes automated passport machines are very much still in use here in the UK. Personally I use them 2, maybe, 3 times every trip before queuing up again to have my passport checked manually. :P
- d1sxeyes 4y ago
  Still worth it to jump to the front of the queue...
abhishekjha 4y ago
Surprising thing is that there were 4 such lanes at Schipol, Amsterdam but I din't see a lot of people using it. 99% of people were standing in that long line with me. Even those who had those red passports. I wonder why not?

EdwardDiego 4y ago

IIRC some airports have them in the US - legacy of a trial run maybe? Oh, I see they're removing them because they don't do facial recognition. That's weird though, our ones in NZ use facial recognition, have to scan your passport, and then step into the booth, and look at the camera. They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US.

culturestate 4y ago
> They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US Off the top of my head, Singapore and Japan do fingerprints for visitors at entry as well. Fingerprints are one of the biometrics[1] that can be stored on the chip in an e-passport, but most countries that are adding automated border control today use facial recognition since photos are universal. 1. Photo, fingerprints, and iris scan. Relatively few countries add fingerprints and I don’t think any country adds iris scans.
- sofixa 4y ago
  I've been photographed and fingerprinted in both Bulgaria and France when getting an ID card and passport (i don't know which one has which biometric, probably both have the same information).
  - culturestate 4y ago
    Yeah, I’m fairly sure all of the EEA adds fingerprints, and that this is the original reason that automated Schengen gates only accept EEA passports. When I say “relatively few” I mean on a global basis. ID cards are another matter, but I didn’t include them because most national ID cards can’t be used as international travel documents.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  I didn't get fingerprinted in Singapore, but haven't been through Changi in six years, so could well be a new thing, or they just think Kiwis are harmless.
  - culturestate 4y ago
    Fingerprinting has been around for as long as Singapore has been using automated exit gates - you enroll your bios at a staffed lane on the way in and then use the auto gates on the way out - which I want to say is at least 10ish years. They’re moving everything to facial recognition and iris scan now. This is tangential to the topic of immigration clearance but my Singapore ID literally has my thumbprint printed on it, which I’ve always found hilarious.
    - EdwardDiego 4y ago
      Huh, that would've the time I was transiting through there, and left the airport a couple of times to explore the city, but never fingerprint scanned. Maybe the biometrics on my passport were sufficient already? NZ tends to be an early adopter of such things, as we make a great place to trial new tech, small market unafraid of new shiny.
thenthenthen 4y ago
Fingerprinting is also done in China and in EU we have a biometric passports, containing fingerprints (also residence permits and identity cards contain these).

dijonman2 4y ago

The problem with automated systems is the collection of biometric data. It’s far too invasive and is a perverse incentive to grow identification databases.

snehk 4y ago
The automated system collects the exact same data as the non-automated one.
- djbebs 4y ago
  At a much lower cost to the state...
- dijonman2 4y ago
  Negative, to enroll in Clear you must provide fingerprints. I’ve never been fingerprinted and travel regularly.

monksy 4y ago

I have no interest in using these gates and being forced into a face recognition data collection is pretty crappy.

lp0_on_fire 4y ago
You're going through facial recognition whether you like it or not. The agent behind the counter has cameras, too.
tjomk 4y ago
You have the right to queue for several hours and present your biometric passport to a human who will take your picture, save it to another database, and then visually compare that to your face.
- _6hmp 4y ago
  In the US, returning US citizens have the right to re-enter without a photo or a fingerprint. It's a right I'd like to preserve, and that's getting increasingly harder to exercise as everything in the airport nudges passengers to automated systems with no obvious way to opt out. Obviously other countries have their own rules.
  - Someone 4y ago
    Have you ever tried refusing to show a passport? As far as I know, US citizens have the absolute right to enter its borders (https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/home.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/home.pdf), but whenever I read about that, I wonder how they go about that when a random stranger arrives at a border and claims to be a citizen. The best example I can find is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Worthy#Right_to_travel_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Worthy#Right_to_travel...: “He was able to return to the U.S. in October 1961, showing his birth certificate and vaccination record at Miami Airport” That’s decades ago, though, and he still showed something (but not something that realistically identified him) to get in.
    - 4y ago

stephen_g 4y ago

Yeah, they're very convenient. Annoyingly though the automated gates in the Schengen area (much of continental Europe) only allow EU/EEA passports though.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
I got to queue behind some _very_ pissed off Brits in the non-EU queue post Brexit. It was rather amusing, in a shameful way.

Lio 4y ago

Yes automated passport machines are very much still in use here in the UK. Personally I use them 2, maybe, 3 times every trip before queuing up again to have my passport checked manually. :P

d1sxeyes 4y ago
Still worth it to jump to the front of the queue...

abhishekjha 4y ago

Surprising thing is that there were 4 such lanes at Schipol, Amsterdam but I din't see a lot of people using it. 99% of people were standing in that long line with me. Even those who had those red passports. I wonder why not?