6 ms·

Whatever Happened to Those Self-Service Passport Kiosks at Airports?

38 points by lxm 4y ago

z9znz 4y ago
Paywalled, so ? But I just used a passport (border entry) kiosk at DFW airport two weeks ago. Same machines I have used for 10 years of frequent entries at that airport.
- Cockbrand 4y ago
  NYT articles usually work when opened in a new incognito session. That said: https://archive.ph/2022.10.05-171902/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/travel/customs-kiosks-facial-recognition.html https://archive.ph/2022.10.05-171902/https://www.nytimes.com...
  - rezonant 4y ago
    For me, Incognito hasn't worked for NYT or any other major news site for a very long time
  - lifeinthevoid 4y ago
    NYT also works when disabling JavaScript from nytimes.com
Always42 4y ago
not paywalled version https://web.archive.org/web/20221006012514/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/travel/customs-kiosks-facial-recognition.html https://web.archive.org/web/20221006012514/https://www.nytim... your welcome
throwaway892238 4y ago
> “We don’t want another 9/11 in this country,” said Mr. Russo, who noted that the system frees up officers to focus on asking the “important questions that help us keep terrorists and drug smugglers out of the country.” Fuck anyone who uses 9/11 as an excuse to reduce anyone's civil liberties. On the one hand, they are almost always defending some ass-backwards initiative that doesn't actually keep us secure. And on the other, we freaked out way too much over 9/11. 3,000 people died in 9/11, and we started two wars that lasted 20 years and killed 375,000 civilians. Yet the same number of people (~2500) die every month in traffic collisions - 600,000 dead over 20 years - and we have not yet implemented any draconian safety measures after decades of uninterrupted vehicular deaths.
- monksy 4y ago
  There were days in prior peaks where we had 2-3k dead from covid. Heck we had days in IL where we had 200+ dead in a day. (How much does a 737 hold and how much did those people's medical bills cost?)
  - nextstepguy 4y ago
    Right, and we didn't go bomb China when that happened.
    - herbst 4y ago
      Well your media definitely did.
  - deegles 4y ago
    As of today there are 391 deaths per day, 2,737 per week according to the official stats in the New York Times. It's not a thing of the past.
  - refurb 4y ago
    A death from an epidemic and a death from a terror attack are not equivalent in the threat they pose to a country. Terror attacks can destabilize political systems and damage economies to a far greater extent than the number of dead might suggest.
    - hedora 4y ago
      The US gov't clearly doesn't care about terrorist attacks any more. They happen all the time, and hardly even make the news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... (3500 injured, 703 dead last year alone...)
      - endominus 4y ago
        For context, the CDC reports 24576 homicides in 2021, 19384 of which are firearm related. Don't know if redefining terrorism to include non-politically-motivated homicide is useful.
ctippett 4y ago
I recently flew from Greece to London on an Australian passport and was able to utilize the same automated passport lanes as everyone else. It's amazing what a difference they make, I was off the plane and through customs in less than 30 minutes. The same system is used in Australia, NZ and I'm sure other countries too. It's a shame the same system can't (or won't) be adopted by the US.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  IIRC some airports have them in the US - legacy of a trial run maybe? Oh, I see they're removing them because they don't do facial recognition. That's weird though, our ones in NZ use facial recognition, have to scan your passport, and then step into the booth, and look at the camera. They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US.
  - culturestate 4y ago
    > They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US Off the top of my head, Singapore and Japan do fingerprints for visitors at entry as well. Fingerprints are one of the biometrics[1] that can be stored on the chip in an e-passport, but most countries that are adding automated border control today use facial recognition since photos are universal. 1. Photo, fingerprints, and iris scan. Relatively few countries add fingerprints and I don’t think any country adds iris scans.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      I've been photographed and fingerprinted in both Bulgaria and France when getting an ID card and passport (i don't know which one has which biometric, probably both have the same information).
      - culturestate 4y ago
        Yeah, I’m fairly sure all of the EEA adds fingerprints, and that this is the original reason that automated Schengen gates only accept EEA passports. When I say “relatively few” I mean on a global basis. ID cards are another matter, but I didn’t include them because most national ID cards can’t be used as international travel documents.
zxcvbn4038 4y ago
I’ve had good experiences with the trusted traveler program in the US - you bypass the lines when boarding and when returning from international travel you can take the diplomatic lane and bypass most of customs. The problem is that my pass expired almost two years ago and my application for renewal has been processing for even longer. Two years (and counting) just to get to the point where you can get on the waiting list for the in-person interview which I believe has another two year wait. Calling or writing does not help, they just tell you there is a backlog and that’s all they know.
sofixa 4y ago
I find it shocking that the previous kiosks were allowed to be used when they didn't even compare the person using a passport with the picture on that passport. Does that mean anyone could use anyone else's passport? In some places around the EU (and UK) there are automatic kiosk that use the NFC chip in your passport to read the picture, and compare that to a live photo they're taking, while also checking for you in various databases. It's secure and fast, and saves on useless manpower.
- INTPenis 4y ago
  Yeah EU passports are so smart you can scan them with a barcode scanner. But you can't board without a human person verifying your passport and boarding pass. So it's not that easy to fly with someone elses passport, and also I would assume highly illegal. I suspect they get your picture on their screen through your census info, so they don't really need to handle your passport. It's a technical convenience.
  - Someone 4y ago
    They don’t read a barcode, they use NFC. A chip in the passport stores your picture and fingerprint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#European_Union_/_EFTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#European_Un...)
    - INTPenis 4y ago
      Ok that sounds plausible but there is something being scanned from my Swedish passport that is not NFC. Every time I use my passport to identify myself they scan it with a red light scanner, like a barcode scanner, and they can hold it like 30 cm away so I don't think it's NFC. That same light is in the little ticket terminals at the Copenhagen airport when you scan your passport there.
      - iggldiggl 4y ago
        Possibly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_passport ?
neonate 4y ago
https://archive.ph/HC7L9 https://archive.ph/HC7L9
theonlybutlet 4y ago
"building a related tool intended to spot foreign nationals lacking proper visas when they depart the country." Why would you be worried when they're leaving anyway?
- lmz 4y ago
  Because it's cheaper to enforce on people leaving instead of monitoring where every foreigner is in the land.
- ansgri 4y ago
  To deny entry next time.
etaioinshrdlu 4y ago
If you fly private apparently customs will come to you on your plane. Is this true, and does this apply to them as well?
TedShiller 4y ago
How does it make sense to have two totally different standards for verifying the identities of arriving visitors? Airports are super strict, but at the southern borders anyone can come in?

38 points by lxm 4y ago

Paywalled, so ? But I just used a passport (border entry) kiosk at DFW airport two weeks ago. Same machines I have used for 10 years of frequent entries at that airport.

Cockbrand 4y ago
NYT articles usually work when opened in a new incognito session. That said: https://archive.ph/2022.10.05-171902/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/travel/customs-kiosks-facial-recognition.html https://archive.ph/2022.10.05-171902/https://www.nytimes.com...
- rezonant 4y ago
  For me, Incognito hasn't worked for NYT or any other major news site for a very long time
- lifeinthevoid 4y ago
  NYT also works when disabling JavaScript from nytimes.com

Always42 4y ago

not paywalled version https://web.archive.org/web/20221006012514/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/05/travel/customs-kiosks-facial-recognition.html https://web.archive.org/web/20221006012514/https://www.nytim... your welcome

throwaway892238 4y ago

> “We don’t want another 9/11 in this country,” said Mr. Russo, who noted that the system frees up officers to focus on asking the “important questions that help us keep terrorists and drug smugglers out of the country.” Fuck anyone who uses 9/11 as an excuse to reduce anyone's civil liberties. On the one hand, they are almost always defending some ass-backwards initiative that doesn't actually keep us secure. And on the other, we freaked out way too much over 9/11. 3,000 people died in 9/11, and we started two wars that lasted 20 years and killed 375,000 civilians. Yet the same number of people (~2500) die every month in traffic collisions - 600,000 dead over 20 years - and we have not yet implemented any draconian safety measures after decades of uninterrupted vehicular deaths.

monksy 4y ago
There were days in prior peaks where we had 2-3k dead from covid. Heck we had days in IL where we had 200+ dead in a day. (How much does a 737 hold and how much did those people's medical bills cost?)
- nextstepguy 4y ago
  Right, and we didn't go bomb China when that happened.
  - herbst 4y ago
    Well your media definitely did.
- deegles 4y ago
  As of today there are 391 deaths per day, 2,737 per week according to the official stats in the New York Times. It's not a thing of the past.
- refurb 4y ago
  A death from an epidemic and a death from a terror attack are not equivalent in the threat they pose to a country. Terror attacks can destabilize political systems and damage economies to a far greater extent than the number of dead might suggest.
  - hedora 4y ago
    The US gov't clearly doesn't care about terrorist attacks any more. They happen all the time, and hardly even make the news: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2021 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_... (3500 injured, 703 dead last year alone...)
    - endominus 4y ago
      For context, the CDC reports 24576 homicides in 2021, 19384 of which are firearm related. Don't know if redefining terrorism to include non-politically-motivated homicide is useful.

ctippett 4y ago

I recently flew from Greece to London on an Australian passport and was able to utilize the same automated passport lanes as everyone else. It's amazing what a difference they make, I was off the plane and through customs in less than 30 minutes. The same system is used in Australia, NZ and I'm sure other countries too. It's a shame the same system can't (or won't) be adopted by the US.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
IIRC some airports have them in the US - legacy of a trial run maybe? Oh, I see they're removing them because they don't do facial recognition. That's weird though, our ones in NZ use facial recognition, have to scan your passport, and then step into the booth, and look at the camera. They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US.
- culturestate 4y ago
  > They don't fingerprint us though, that's some specialness I've only encountered in the US Off the top of my head, Singapore and Japan do fingerprints for visitors at entry as well. Fingerprints are one of the biometrics[1] that can be stored on the chip in an e-passport, but most countries that are adding automated border control today use facial recognition since photos are universal. 1. Photo, fingerprints, and iris scan. Relatively few countries add fingerprints and I don’t think any country adds iris scans.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    I've been photographed and fingerprinted in both Bulgaria and France when getting an ID card and passport (i don't know which one has which biometric, probably both have the same information).
    - culturestate 4y ago
      Yeah, I’m fairly sure all of the EEA adds fingerprints, and that this is the original reason that automated Schengen gates only accept EEA passports. When I say “relatively few” I mean on a global basis. ID cards are another matter, but I didn’t include them because most national ID cards can’t be used as international travel documents.

zxcvbn4038 4y ago

I’ve had good experiences with the trusted traveler program in the US - you bypass the lines when boarding and when returning from international travel you can take the diplomatic lane and bypass most of customs. The problem is that my pass expired almost two years ago and my application for renewal has been processing for even longer. Two years (and counting) just to get to the point where you can get on the waiting list for the in-person interview which I believe has another two year wait. Calling or writing does not help, they just tell you there is a backlog and that’s all they know.

sofixa 4y ago

I find it shocking that the previous kiosks were allowed to be used when they didn't even compare the person using a passport with the picture on that passport. Does that mean anyone could use anyone else's passport? In some places around the EU (and UK) there are automatic kiosk that use the NFC chip in your passport to read the picture, and compare that to a live photo they're taking, while also checking for you in various databases. It's secure and fast, and saves on useless manpower.

INTPenis 4y ago
Yeah EU passports are so smart you can scan them with a barcode scanner. But you can't board without a human person verifying your passport and boarding pass. So it's not that easy to fly with someone elses passport, and also I would assume highly illegal. I suspect they get your picture on their screen through your census info, so they don't really need to handle your passport. It's a technical convenience.
- Someone 4y ago
  They don’t read a barcode, they use NFC. A chip in the passport stores your picture and fingerprint (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#European_Union_/_EFTA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biometric_passport#European_Un...)
  - INTPenis 4y ago
    Ok that sounds plausible but there is something being scanned from my Swedish passport that is not NFC. Every time I use my passport to identify myself they scan it with a red light scanner, like a barcode scanner, and they can hold it like 30 cm away so I don't think it's NFC. That same light is in the little ticket terminals at the Copenhagen airport when you scan your passport there.
    - iggldiggl 4y ago
      Possibly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_passport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_passport ?

neonate 4y ago

https://archive.ph/HC7L9 https://archive.ph/HC7L9

theonlybutlet 4y ago

"building a related tool intended to spot foreign nationals lacking proper visas when they depart the country." Why would you be worried when they're leaving anyway?

lmz 4y ago
Because it's cheaper to enforce on people leaving instead of monitoring where every foreigner is in the land.
ansgri 4y ago
To deny entry next time.

etaioinshrdlu 4y ago

If you fly private apparently customs will come to you on your plane. Is this true, and does this apply to them as well?

TedShiller 4y ago

How does it make sense to have two totally different standards for verifying the identities of arriving visitors? Airports are super strict, but at the southern borders anyone can come in?