4 ms·

> Is Apple really that important though? Yes, this is not even arguable. A national security concern as well.

by arberx 4y ago

svnpenn 4y ago
It is arguable. I would be fine if Apple crashed and burned. I don't use any Apple products. My company does, but Apple folded, I'm sure we would just move to Android or something. Apple is the only company I have ever seen, that doesn't give business discounts. We pay the same as any Joe off the street. Even Microsoft doesn't do that. Fuck Apple.
- pb7 4y ago
  It sounds like you have a personal beef with Apple because you don't get special treatment. This has nothing to do with its importance to the US, which is extremely high.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  You seem to forget that literally almost every Android phone is also made in China and would be immediately hit with the same sanctions. Every Android phone also has parts made in Taiwan, just like the iPhone, an area that would almost certainly be blockaded in the event of a conflict. As for your complaints about business discounts... I see it as a win for the consumer that they don't have to be a "business" to artificially pay less. Fuck that.
  - newaccount2021 4y ago
    huh? Samsung is the Android market...made in Vietnam afaik they exited China manufacturing completely in 2019
    - gjsman-1000 4y ago
      If there was a skirmish, Vietnam is just south of China, is communist just like China, and would likely find themselves quickly aligned with China over the US. So much so they may as well be the same level of risk.
      - skhr0680 4y ago
        Vietnam is one of the most anti-China countries
        gjsman-1000 4y ago
        Citation needed. Also my point remains unchanged that Vietnam would probably get in line in a skirmish, regardless of how they feel.
        Lio 4y ago
        China and Vietnam fought a war in 1979 and several border skirmishes during the 1980s. Right now China is claiming control of some of Vietnam's coastal waters including the sinking of Vietnamese fishing vessels, so there are ongoing disputes between the two countries. Previously Vietnam partnered with the USSR against China. Now that Putin is Xi's closest ally (or wants to be seen that way) Vietnam could well be looking for new allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relation...
        dirtyid 4y ago
        Vietnam has "Three No's" defense policy that will preclude any substantial anti-PRC alignment. There's some wiggle room to posture / hedge with US for theatre in new white paper, but nothing major because the "Three No's" were specifically drafted in 98 after normalizing relations with PRC with appeasement in mind. The war and subsequent border skirmishes thoroughly deindustrialized North manufacturing and set back VN development for decades. VN could have gotten on the export-driven gravy train much earlier, instead it went to PRC. There's very little chance VN will embrace western alliances on tier of PRC/RU "comprehensive strategic partnership" because PRC build up a lot of leverage over the years, including funding (frequently owning) a lot of the supply chains in VN, and via control of hydropower/water/agri resources by influencing upper Mekong Laos. Both Trump/Biden admin have tried to court Vietnam somewhat informed by spurious sentiment that "Vietnamese public hate Chinese, therefore they must be onboard", but went nowhere. TLDR is PRC has a lot of existential leverage over VN, which provides leverage over SKR ontop of existing SKR economic leverage.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      Yeah. Also Samsung Semiconductor is the only alternative option for smartphone highend SoC not manufactured in Taiwan/PRC.
    - dirtyid 4y ago
      Samsung farmed 20%/60M units of low end units back to PRC ODMs in 2020 with plans to ramp up % before covid. IIRC there was a BOM break down of Vietnamese made Samsung phones where ~40+% of the components (not by value) were from PRC suppliers and ~25% from SKR. The reality is both SKR and VN are heavily dependant on PRC supply chains and a lot of the supply chains in VN are setup by PRC money.
- ascendantlogic 4y ago
  Apple not giving you business discounts doesn't affect how critical it is to the US from economic and security standpoints.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Apple gives business discounts. https://www.apple.com/retail/business/ https://www.apple.com/retail/business/
- mikestew 4y ago
  Your personal beef with a company is not a basis for making it "arguable". And Apple gave even my teensy little company (when it was running) discounts. They have (or at least had) a business program which required some proof of business license (DUN, or summat?), and enjoy your discount. I'd look it up, but parent isn't going to, so I won't bother.
amelius 4y ago
Nationalize it then.
- pb7 4y ago
  How would that help anything?
  - amelius 4y ago
    It would solve the problem that if Apple decides to do anything that goes against national interest (they are free to do so) then the government/voters would be able to do something against it.
    - pb7 4y ago
      Your solution to protecting ourselves from being dependent on an authoritarian government is by being authoritarian to our own first? How would nationalizing it help one bit if China decided to block exports?
      - herbst 4y ago
        If the US would have any say in apples politics they wouldnt fully depend on China at this point. It was obvious for years that this will lead to issues and both countries make a huge point in hating on each other.
orangepurple 4y ago
Friendly reminder that Apple is the largest component of SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (SPY). Most stocks are under 2% representation except Apple and a handful of others. Top 10 Holdings (27.37% of Total Assets) Name Symbol % Assets Apple Inc AAPL 5.90% Microsoft Corp MSFT 5.60% Amazon.com Inc AMZN 4.05% Facebook Inc A FB 2.29% Alphabet Inc A GOOGL 2.02% Alphabet Inc Class C GOOG 1.96% Berkshire Hathaway Inc Class B BRK.B 1.45% Tesla Inc TSLA 1.44% NVIDIA Corp NVDA 1.37% JPMorgan Chase & Co JPM 1.29% https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/holdings/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/holdings/
Bloating 4y ago
So says Jim Jones (Drink the Apple flavored Kool-Aid)

> Is Apple really that important though? Yes, this is not even arguable. A national security concern as well.

by arberx 4y ago

> Is Apple really that important though? Yes, this is not even arguable. A national security concern as well.

It is arguable. I would be fine if Apple crashed and burned. I don't use any Apple products. My company does, but Apple folded, I'm sure we would just move to Android or something. Apple is the only company I have ever seen, that doesn't give business discounts. We pay the same as any Joe off the street. Even Microsoft doesn't do that. Fuck Apple.

pb7 4y ago
It sounds like you have a personal beef with Apple because you don't get special treatment. This has nothing to do with its importance to the US, which is extremely high.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
You seem to forget that literally almost every Android phone is also made in China and would be immediately hit with the same sanctions. Every Android phone also has parts made in Taiwan, just like the iPhone, an area that would almost certainly be blockaded in the event of a conflict. As for your complaints about business discounts... I see it as a win for the consumer that they don't have to be a "business" to artificially pay less. Fuck that.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
  huh? Samsung is the Android market...made in Vietnam afaik they exited China manufacturing completely in 2019
  - gjsman-1000 4y ago
    If there was a skirmish, Vietnam is just south of China, is communist just like China, and would likely find themselves quickly aligned with China over the US. So much so they may as well be the same level of risk.
    - skhr0680 4y ago
      Vietnam is one of the most anti-China countries
      - gjsman-1000 4y ago
        Citation needed. Also my point remains unchanged that Vietnam would probably get in line in a skirmish, regardless of how they feel.
        Lio 4y ago
        China and Vietnam fought a war in 1979 and several border skirmishes during the 1980s. Right now China is claiming control of some of Vietnam's coastal waters including the sinking of Vietnamese fishing vessels, so there are ongoing disputes between the two countries. Previously Vietnam partnered with the USSR against China. Now that Putin is Xi's closest ally (or wants to be seen that way) Vietnam could well be looking for new allies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relation...
        dirtyid 4y ago
        Vietnam has "Three No's" defense policy that will preclude any substantial anti-PRC alignment. There's some wiggle room to posture / hedge with US for theatre in new white paper, but nothing major because the "Three No's" were specifically drafted in 98 after normalizing relations with PRC with appeasement in mind. The war and subsequent border skirmishes thoroughly deindustrialized North manufacturing and set back VN development for decades. VN could have gotten on the export-driven gravy train much earlier, instead it went to PRC. There's very little chance VN will embrace western alliances on tier of PRC/RU "comprehensive strategic partnership" because PRC build up a lot of leverage over the years, including funding (frequently owning) a lot of the supply chains in VN, and via control of hydropower/water/agri resources by influencing upper Mekong Laos. Both Trump/Biden admin have tried to court Vietnam somewhat informed by spurious sentiment that "Vietnamese public hate Chinese, therefore they must be onboard", but went nowhere. TLDR is PRC has a lot of existential leverage over VN, which provides leverage over SKR ontop of existing SKR economic leverage.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    Yeah. Also Samsung Semiconductor is the only alternative option for smartphone highend SoC not manufactured in Taiwan/PRC.
  - dirtyid 4y ago
    Samsung farmed 20%/60M units of low end units back to PRC ODMs in 2020 with plans to ramp up % before covid. IIRC there was a BOM break down of Vietnamese made Samsung phones where ~40+% of the components (not by value) were from PRC suppliers and ~25% from SKR. The reality is both SKR and VN are heavily dependant on PRC supply chains and a lot of the supply chains in VN are setup by PRC money.
ascendantlogic 4y ago
Apple not giving you business discounts doesn't affect how critical it is to the US from economic and security standpoints.
ceejayoz 4y ago
Apple gives business discounts. https://www.apple.com/retail/business/ https://www.apple.com/retail/business/
mikestew 4y ago
Your personal beef with a company is not a basis for making it "arguable". And Apple gave even my teensy little company (when it was running) discounts. They have (or at least had) a business program which required some proof of business license (DUN, or summat?), and enjoy your discount. I'd look it up, but parent isn't going to, so I won't bother.

amelius 4y ago

Nationalize it then.

pb7 4y ago
How would that help anything?
- amelius 4y ago
  It would solve the problem that if Apple decides to do anything that goes against national interest (they are free to do so) then the government/voters would be able to do something against it.
  - pb7 4y ago
    Your solution to protecting ourselves from being dependent on an authoritarian government is by being authoritarian to our own first? How would nationalizing it help one bit if China decided to block exports?
    - herbst 4y ago
      If the US would have any say in apples politics they wouldnt fully depend on China at this point. It was obvious for years that this will lead to issues and both countries make a huge point in hating on each other.

orangepurple 4y ago

Friendly reminder that Apple is the largest component of SPDR S&P 500 ETF Trust (SPY). Most stocks are under 2% representation except Apple and a handful of others. Top 10 Holdings (27.37% of Total Assets) Name Symbol % Assets Apple Inc AAPL 5.90% Microsoft Corp MSFT 5.60% Amazon.com Inc AMZN 4.05% Facebook Inc A FB 2.29% Alphabet Inc A GOOGL 2.02% Alphabet Inc Class C GOOG 1.96% Berkshire Hathaway Inc Class B BRK.B 1.45% Tesla Inc TSLA 1.44% NVIDIA Corp NVDA 1.37% JPMorgan Chase & Co JPM 1.29% https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/holdings/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SPY/holdings/

Bloating 4y ago

So says Jim Jones (Drink the Apple flavored Kool-Aid)