4 ms·

Cheapest 10GbE 8-Port Switch TP-Link TL-ST1008F Review

64 points by mariuz 4y ago

hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
I find the mass movement in the home market to 2.5gbe quite odd over 5 or 10gbe, given it’s only marginally faster in contrast, especially given 1gbe has been industry norm for at least 15 years
- DannyBee 4y ago
  It is also the least well supported of any speed (10gbps being the most well supported)
- rubatuga 4y ago
  I would say norm for 20 years at least.
- sliken 4y ago
  Sad, especially when Ryzen chips have dual 10G support in the silicon, but only enables in on some products in the name of product differentiation. Dual 10G cards are generally still pretty expensive, and motherboards with dual 10G are often several $100 more than the 1G version ... even when the 10G is supported by the CPU, like on the Xeon D series. So basically people are still willing to pay more for 10G, and 2.5G is now the "free" upgrade. So my Comcast model, random Ryzen motherboard, and random SFF desktop all came with 2.5G. Sadly same on the Apple side, the Mac mini has an optional 10G, and you have to upgrade to the $$$$ Mac studio to get 10G by default.
- dannyz 4y ago
  The vast majority of existing wiring is cat5e which 2.5gb is the max speed
  - fulafel 4y ago
    And there's even more pre-ethernet POTS wiring. But most of stuff built or renovated in the last 30 years has gotten fiber put in. Which is also much more power efficient than the faster ethernet standards over twised pair. (Also your cat5e should do 10G for the most common short distances, it's not categorically different, just has looser signal integrity specs than Cat6. Just isn't guaranteed over the 100m max specified distance)
  - axiolite 4y ago
    Nonsense. I've used 10GbE over CAT5 cables, plenty. The upper limit for 10GbE over CAT5e is about 45m: https://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/10gbaset-can-this-be-run-over-cat5e/ https://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/10gbaset-can-this-be-run... I expect that is sufficient for most residential installations.
- Havoc 4y ago
  Not sure I'd calls more than doubling "marginally faster". I'd imagine the answer is cost & cooling. 10gbe is substantially more energy intensive than 1gbe.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
    You’ve gone from maybe a dual core processor and 8gb of ram, 500gb of mechanical storage and 512kbps internet w/ a gigabit mic to a 24core processor, up to 128gb of ram, SSDs, gigabit internet to see only a 2.5x speed increase in ethernet? Edit: to be clear I don’t expect he same rate of growth due to the lack of use at speeds upwards of 10gbe for the average user, but over a 20 year span, 10gbe should be commodity hardware.
jmyeet 4y ago
Ever since 10MbE, it's been the norm for every new generation to go 10x. 100MbE ("Fast Ethernet") was released in 1995. Gigabit was standardized only 3 years later. Gigabit really started to come to consumer tech in the 2000s. You still find 100MbE on cheaper hardware. But here we are in 2022 and 10GbE is nowhere near standard and may well never be. It makes me think 10x'ing here was a mistake. We have 2.5GbE and 5GbE standards now but we should've probably had those earlier. Copper over 10GbE in particular runs really hot. Often adapters will just be massive heatsinks and/or fans. It's interesting reading here that a lot of 25GbE connectors (50-60% was one figure quoted) failed to negotiate 10GbE. I can't say I expected that. That seems like a problem. It's kind of wild you can get a 10GbE switch for under $200 as you'll often see 10GbE gear run at $100-200+/port.
- duxup 4y ago
  Personally I prefer Fibre channel‘s 1,2,4,8,16… speeds progression.
- mjevans 4y ago
  I still suspect we'll see much cheaper gear once the patents expire, though it might be due to more computationally expensive encoding. 10GBASE-T was standardized in 2006 so 2027+ hopefully? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#Copper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#Copper
InvaderFizz 4y ago
FYI, this video is from June. Patrick teases it in this video, but he recommends another 2.5Gbe switch in a later video[0]. 0: https://www.servethehome.com/the-ultimate-cheap-2-5gbe-poe-unmanaged-switch-hasivo-s1100p-8gt/ https://www.servethehome.com/the-ultimate-cheap-2-5gbe-poe-u...
mardifoufs 4y ago
I never thought I'd actually shop for a 10Gbe switch here in canada, but I went from a 100mbps trash-tier docsis (ugh) connection to an almost too-good-to-be-true symmetric 1.5gbs FTTH with Bell Fibe. For the same price (!), around 60$/month with a permanent discount that Bell seems to hand out to everyone who asks. The issue is that it seems to be very hard to find affordable switches with 10gbe ethernet copper ports, instead of SFP. The few that exist either cost more than what I pay for my connection in an entire year, or don't interact well with the ISP provided hub/modem (it has no SFP). Bell also seems to have locked down their new hardware so it is impossible to bypass their hub. And while I have a home server rack, even the more affordable second hand enterprise switches are usually ancient powerhogs. So for now wifi 6e is basically just as fast as my wired setup, which is weird. I guess I'm not used to being at the edge of home networking tech as a canadian... but I'd be happy to hear about recommendations and what to look for/avoid with that type of gear either (new or used)
- selectodude 4y ago
  Do you need to have 10GbE? That is very high end kit, especially with copper. The power consumption is extreme and the distances are never going to be very good compared to fiber. 2.5GbE ethernet is super accessible now from Netgear, Trendnet, TPLink etc and doesn't require new NICs on any newer desktops. All my shit that 2.5GbE is useful supports 2.5GbE.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    I'm not sure actually, I have a local NAS/Server rack where I store work related datasets (think a few hundred/thousands 12-15GB .h5 files). And while I definitely don't need instant or even super fast access to them, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt either. We already have tons of optimizations and usually process datasets in a cloud environment with "good" IOPS/Network[1] speeds, but it is still faster to use locally in some situations. 10Gbe gear would be a nice to have to avoid bottlenecks within the LAN... but I just realized that I'm making a good case for just shelling out more money instead of cheaping out haha. [1] As good as it gets on Azure, I guess. Which is not much at all, even on Ultra SSDs so I keep a local cache for smaller scale stuff
rsync 4y ago
This is interesting but I would much prefer to know what the cheapest copper 10GbE switch is ... We've been buying the d-link DXS-1210-12TC for top-of-rack 10GbE switches and at (roughly) $15xx it's fine ... but I don't have one of those in the lab ...
- axiolite 4y ago
  It may be the time to switch to fiber. You may be too young to remember when ethernet switched from coax (10Base2) to twisted pair (10BaseT), but the economics look like it will soon be time to make the physical media jump again.
- magixx 4y ago
  I've been searching for the same thing and the cheapest is the QNAP QSW-2104-2T for $160 USD which seems to be the same as the Trendnet TEG-S762. It has 2 10G multigig ports and 4 2.5G. My eventual goal is to have NAS and desktop on 10G and rest on 2.5G. Unfortunately my NAS setup can't really take advantage of the 5G+ speeds and 10G PCIE cards are not competitively priced so it will get a $17 2.5G PCIE card for now.
- comprambler 4y ago
  Extreme bought Broadcom’s copper 10g line, so look to used units of theirs.
Owen69 4y ago
[dead]
fulafel 4y ago
> At $166, this is a sub $21/ port 10GbE switch How much is this with fiber SFPs factored in?
- axiolite 4y ago
  I'm able to find 10GBASE-SR SFP+ 850nm 300m for $10/ea on Amazon. For short distances (e.g. in the same room) you'd be smart to use Twinax.
oliv3r 4y ago
Obligatory OpenWRT post for reference ;) First the disclaimer, very much work in progress (WIP)! Don't YET expect everything to work! 10/100Mbit is not working, SFP+ is experimental and the code base is a bit of a mess (but far better then the SDK). Anyway, https://forum.openwrt.org/t/support-for-rtl838x-based-managed-switches/57875 https://forum.openwrt.org/t/support-for-rtl838x-based-manage... is the forum thread talking about these switches, https://svanheule.net/switches/ https://svanheule.net/switches/ is the wiki. Lots of help is still needed, even if it is just doing teardowns with photo's and help in learning stuff. Full GPL source is available though.

64 points by mariuz 4y ago

I find the mass movement in the home market to 2.5gbe quite odd over 5 or 10gbe, given it’s only marginally faster in contrast, especially given 1gbe has been industry norm for at least 15 years

DannyBee 4y ago
It is also the least well supported of any speed (10gbps being the most well supported)
rubatuga 4y ago
I would say norm for 20 years at least.
sliken 4y ago
Sad, especially when Ryzen chips have dual 10G support in the silicon, but only enables in on some products in the name of product differentiation. Dual 10G cards are generally still pretty expensive, and motherboards with dual 10G are often several $100 more than the 1G version ... even when the 10G is supported by the CPU, like on the Xeon D series. So basically people are still willing to pay more for 10G, and 2.5G is now the "free" upgrade. So my Comcast model, random Ryzen motherboard, and random SFF desktop all came with 2.5G. Sadly same on the Apple side, the Mac mini has an optional 10G, and you have to upgrade to the $$$$ Mac studio to get 10G by default.
dannyz 4y ago
The vast majority of existing wiring is cat5e which 2.5gb is the max speed
- fulafel 4y ago
  And there's even more pre-ethernet POTS wiring. But most of stuff built or renovated in the last 30 years has gotten fiber put in. Which is also much more power efficient than the faster ethernet standards over twised pair. (Also your cat5e should do 10G for the most common short distances, it's not categorically different, just has looser signal integrity specs than Cat6. Just isn't guaranteed over the 100m max specified distance)
- axiolite 4y ago
  Nonsense. I've used 10GbE over CAT5 cables, plenty. The upper limit for 10GbE over CAT5e is about 45m: https://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/10gbaset-can-this-be-run-over-cat5e/ https://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/10gbaset-can-this-be-run... I expect that is sufficient for most residential installations.
Havoc 4y ago
Not sure I'd calls more than doubling "marginally faster". I'd imagine the answer is cost & cooling. 10gbe is substantially more energy intensive than 1gbe.
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y ago
  You’ve gone from maybe a dual core processor and 8gb of ram, 500gb of mechanical storage and 512kbps internet w/ a gigabit mic to a 24core processor, up to 128gb of ram, SSDs, gigabit internet to see only a 2.5x speed increase in ethernet? Edit: to be clear I don’t expect he same rate of growth due to the lack of use at speeds upwards of 10gbe for the average user, but over a 20 year span, 10gbe should be commodity hardware.

jmyeet 4y ago

Ever since 10MbE, it's been the norm for every new generation to go 10x. 100MbE ("Fast Ethernet") was released in 1995. Gigabit was standardized only 3 years later. Gigabit really started to come to consumer tech in the 2000s. You still find 100MbE on cheaper hardware. But here we are in 2022 and 10GbE is nowhere near standard and may well never be. It makes me think 10x'ing here was a mistake. We have 2.5GbE and 5GbE standards now but we should've probably had those earlier. Copper over 10GbE in particular runs really hot. Often adapters will just be massive heatsinks and/or fans. It's interesting reading here that a lot of 25GbE connectors (50-60% was one figure quoted) failed to negotiate 10GbE. I can't say I expected that. That seems like a problem. It's kind of wild you can get a 10GbE switch for under $200 as you'll often see 10GbE gear run at $100-200+/port.

duxup 4y ago
Personally I prefer Fibre channel‘s 1,2,4,8,16… speeds progression.
mjevans 4y ago
I still suspect we'll see much cheaper gear once the patents expire, though it might be due to more computationally expensive encoding. 10GBASE-T was standardized in 2006 so 2027+ hopefully? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#Copper https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Gigabit_Ethernet#Copper

InvaderFizz 4y ago

FYI, this video is from June. Patrick teases it in this video, but he recommends another 2.5Gbe switch in a later video[0]. 0: https://www.servethehome.com/the-ultimate-cheap-2-5gbe-poe-unmanaged-switch-hasivo-s1100p-8gt/ https://www.servethehome.com/the-ultimate-cheap-2-5gbe-poe-u...

mardifoufs 4y ago

I never thought I'd actually shop for a 10Gbe switch here in canada, but I went from a 100mbps trash-tier docsis (ugh) connection to an almost too-good-to-be-true symmetric 1.5gbs FTTH with Bell Fibe. For the same price (!), around 60$/month with a permanent discount that Bell seems to hand out to everyone who asks. The issue is that it seems to be very hard to find affordable switches with 10gbe ethernet copper ports, instead of SFP. The few that exist either cost more than what I pay for my connection in an entire year, or don't interact well with the ISP provided hub/modem (it has no SFP). Bell also seems to have locked down their new hardware so it is impossible to bypass their hub. And while I have a home server rack, even the more affordable second hand enterprise switches are usually ancient powerhogs. So for now wifi 6e is basically just as fast as my wired setup, which is weird. I guess I'm not used to being at the edge of home networking tech as a canadian... but I'd be happy to hear about recommendations and what to look for/avoid with that type of gear either (new or used)

selectodude 4y ago
Do you need to have 10GbE? That is very high end kit, especially with copper. The power consumption is extreme and the distances are never going to be very good compared to fiber. 2.5GbE ethernet is super accessible now from Netgear, Trendnet, TPLink etc and doesn't require new NICs on any newer desktops. All my shit that 2.5GbE is useful supports 2.5GbE.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  I'm not sure actually, I have a local NAS/Server rack where I store work related datasets (think a few hundred/thousands 12-15GB .h5 files). And while I definitely don't need instant or even super fast access to them, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt either. We already have tons of optimizations and usually process datasets in a cloud environment with "good" IOPS/Network[1] speeds, but it is still faster to use locally in some situations. 10Gbe gear would be a nice to have to avoid bottlenecks within the LAN... but I just realized that I'm making a good case for just shelling out more money instead of cheaping out haha. [1] As good as it gets on Azure, I guess. Which is not much at all, even on Ultra SSDs so I keep a local cache for smaller scale stuff

rsync 4y ago

This is interesting but I would much prefer to know what the cheapest copper 10GbE switch is ... We've been buying the d-link DXS-1210-12TC for top-of-rack 10GbE switches and at (roughly) $15xx it's fine ... but I don't have one of those in the lab ...

axiolite 4y ago
It may be the time to switch to fiber. You may be too young to remember when ethernet switched from coax (10Base2) to twisted pair (10BaseT), but the economics look like it will soon be time to make the physical media jump again.
magixx 4y ago
I've been searching for the same thing and the cheapest is the QNAP QSW-2104-2T for $160 USD which seems to be the same as the Trendnet TEG-S762. It has 2 10G multigig ports and 4 2.5G. My eventual goal is to have NAS and desktop on 10G and rest on 2.5G. Unfortunately my NAS setup can't really take advantage of the 5G+ speeds and 10G PCIE cards are not competitively priced so it will get a $17 2.5G PCIE card for now.
comprambler 4y ago
Extreme bought Broadcom’s copper 10g line, so look to used units of theirs.

Owen69 4y ago

[dead]

fulafel 4y ago

> At $166, this is a sub $21/ port 10GbE switch How much is this with fiber SFPs factored in?

axiolite 4y ago
I'm able to find 10GBASE-SR SFP+ 850nm 300m for $10/ea on Amazon. For short distances (e.g. in the same room) you'd be smart to use Twinax.

oliv3r 4y ago

Obligatory OpenWRT post for reference ;) First the disclaimer, very much work in progress (WIP)! Don't YET expect everything to work! 10/100Mbit is not working, SFP+ is experimental and the code base is a bit of a mess (but far better then the SDK). Anyway, https://forum.openwrt.org/t/support-for-rtl838x-based-managed-switches/57875 https://forum.openwrt.org/t/support-for-rtl838x-based-manage... is the forum thread talking about these switches, https://svanheule.net/switches/ https://svanheule.net/switches/ is the wiki. Lots of help is still needed, even if it is just doing teardowns with photo's and help in learning stuff. Full GPL source is available though.