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I've only really looked at the WSJ version but I'm scratching my head at what the big reveal is here - we already know - by Hans admission - he cheated online w

I've only really looked at the WSJ version but I'm scratching my head at what the big reveal is here - we already know - by Hans admission - he cheated online when he was 12 and 16. I think anybody who knows how online chess tournaments work assumed those two times would cover multiple games and dates. Other statistical analyses have been published that indicate no evidence for OTB cheating. The negative against Niemann is the cheating is beefier than he indicated, and given the spotlight he needs to be more thorough. Chess.com has a dog in the fight though, and it's bark seems worse than its bite here...

erdevs 4y ago
The full report is worth reading, if you're interested. It reveals a great deal of additional information, not just about Hans' history of cheating and his misrepresentations, but of wider spread cheating (or suspected cheating) by high level chess elites online.
- mellosouls 4y ago
  I've now gone through the full report and note that the vast bulk of it has little to do with the accusations themselves (or evidence) but ELI5 type stuff about the context including analysis, and - as you say - indications of a wider problem. That's fine, but gives the surface impression of being heavyweight while the important stuff is only a few pages and adds little that is new and nothing that delivers a knockout blow that justifies the onslaught against Niemann led by Carlsen's antics that kicked the whole thing off.
  - fastball 4y ago
    No, the kicker here is that Niemann claimed that at no point did he "cheat in a tournament with prize money.” Chess.com says this is not the case by their analysis. Cheating when you're 12 in matches that don't matter is one thing. Cheating in your late teens in tournaments with money is an entirely different one.
shawabawa3 4y ago
I think the big reveal was 100+ games where it's extremely likely he cheated including prize games
- mellosouls 4y ago
  I can't remember the exact wording of his denial but I was thinking of him copping to two periods, which would cover 100+ games easily (any online regular can play more than that over a few days), so the report isn't a major surprise in that respect.
  - Orothrim 4y ago
    He specifically said "I never cheated in paid-tournament games" and "I never cheated whilst streaming". Chess.com presents pretty clear evidence that's untrue.
    - mellosouls 4y ago
      That's fine if so, but hardly worth 72 pages.

erdevs 4y ago

The full report is worth reading, if you're interested. It reveals a great deal of additional information, not just about Hans' history of cheating and his misrepresentations, but of wider spread cheating (or suspected cheating) by high level chess elites online.

mellosouls 4y ago
I've now gone through the full report and note that the vast bulk of it has little to do with the accusations themselves (or evidence) but ELI5 type stuff about the context including analysis, and - as you say - indications of a wider problem. That's fine, but gives the surface impression of being heavyweight while the important stuff is only a few pages and adds little that is new and nothing that delivers a knockout blow that justifies the onslaught against Niemann led by Carlsen's antics that kicked the whole thing off.
- fastball 4y ago
  No, the kicker here is that Niemann claimed that at no point did he "cheat in a tournament with prize money.” Chess.com says this is not the case by their analysis. Cheating when you're 12 in matches that don't matter is one thing. Cheating in your late teens in tournaments with money is an entirely different one.

shawabawa3 4y ago

I think the big reveal was 100+ games where it's extremely likely he cheated including prize games

mellosouls 4y ago
I can't remember the exact wording of his denial but I was thinking of him copping to two periods, which would cover 100+ games easily (any online regular can play more than that over a few days), so the report isn't a major surprise in that respect.
- Orothrim 4y ago
  He specifically said "I never cheated in paid-tournament games" and "I never cheated whilst streaming". Chess.com presents pretty clear evidence that's untrue.
  - mellosouls 4y ago
    That's fine if so, but hardly worth 72 pages.