4 ms·

It makes sense why they'd do this. Given current energy density of batteries, electric planes are only useful on very short flights. If you can only operate ou

It makes sense why they'd do this. Given current energy density of batteries, electric planes are only useful on very short flights. If you can only operate out of airports (without vtol), the useful range of the airplane will be significantly reduced

kybernetikos 4y ago
Great point. Reading a little more https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/technology-behind-the-lilium-jet https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/technology-behind-the-lil... you're exactly right, and the same thinking drives the requirement of low noise and the ability to utilise helipads.
- nradov 4y ago
  There aren't many helipads either. Outside of regular airports, only a few urban areas have any helipads available for commercial use. More can potentially be built but that requires large open areas free of obstructions. Adding helipads to existing building roofs is generally impractical due to weight and safety issues.
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    >large open areas free of obstructions. https://www.beaconhealthsystem.org/beacon-medical-transport/landing-zone-preparation-and-safety/ https://www.beaconhealthsystem.org/beacon-medical-transport/... You need roughly a football field of clear flat land for human-piloted helicopters. In the US at least, that's nothing. It's comparable to one quarter of a clover-leaf offramp.
    - nradov 4y ago
      It's not nothing. In the affluent areas where passengers would potentially be willing to pay for air taxi service there aren't many large vacant lots left. So not impossible, but it's hard to see how the economics would work. Medical transport helicopters have somewhat greater freedom to land in random places like roads and fields when necessary to pick up emergency patients. But that only works because police are on the ground to secure the area. And local residents don't complain about the noise from a single emergency flight. Those situations don't apply to air taxis.
      - RC_ITR 4y ago
        >It's comparable to one quarter of a clover-leaf offramp. Again, maybe you aren't in America, but outside of SF and NYC, literally every major city is brimming with already loud highway interchanges/off-ramps. Just cap those and put the landing pad on top. Space is not the issue.
        nradov 4y ago
        Building helipads on highway interchanges won't make air taxis viable. Passengers would still have to take a ground taxi to the final destination, thus eliminating any significant time savings on most routes. In order for air taxis to make economic sense they have to bring passengers directly to within a few blocks of the destination.
        RC_ITR 4y ago
        Again, maybe you're not in the US, but here we chose to build those interchanges right downtown, Say what you will about America, but we built our environment to accommodate decentralized forms of transit, it's sort of our thing.
  - carstenhag 4y ago
    1-2 years ago the cto guy from lilium held a presentation at $itCompanyInGermany where I was at. The plan back then was to be same/twice the price of taxis, starting and landing on roofs. Oh, and the cto was telling so much bullshit that it was hard to listen to. Blockchains was of course there, but also stuff I already forgot. I guess it's mostly to impress investors and to collect money, but bs is still bs.
NonNefarious 4y ago
"If you can only operate out of airports (without vtol), the useful range of the airplane will be significantly reduced" Why do you say that? That's backward. VTOL consumes a huge amount of energy, far more than a traditional rolling takeoff.

kybernetikos 4y ago

Great point. Reading a little more https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/technology-behind-the-lilium-jet https://lilium.com/newsroom-detail/technology-behind-the-lil... you're exactly right, and the same thinking drives the requirement of low noise and the ability to utilise helipads.

nradov 4y ago
There aren't many helipads either. Outside of regular airports, only a few urban areas have any helipads available for commercial use. More can potentially be built but that requires large open areas free of obstructions. Adding helipads to existing building roofs is generally impractical due to weight and safety issues.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  >large open areas free of obstructions. https://www.beaconhealthsystem.org/beacon-medical-transport/landing-zone-preparation-and-safety/ https://www.beaconhealthsystem.org/beacon-medical-transport/... You need roughly a football field of clear flat land for human-piloted helicopters. In the US at least, that's nothing. It's comparable to one quarter of a clover-leaf offramp.
  - nradov 4y ago
    It's not nothing. In the affluent areas where passengers would potentially be willing to pay for air taxi service there aren't many large vacant lots left. So not impossible, but it's hard to see how the economics would work. Medical transport helicopters have somewhat greater freedom to land in random places like roads and fields when necessary to pick up emergency patients. But that only works because police are on the ground to secure the area. And local residents don't complain about the noise from a single emergency flight. Those situations don't apply to air taxis.
    - RC_ITR 4y ago
      >It's comparable to one quarter of a clover-leaf offramp. Again, maybe you aren't in America, but outside of SF and NYC, literally every major city is brimming with already loud highway interchanges/off-ramps. Just cap those and put the landing pad on top. Space is not the issue.
      - nradov 4y ago
        Building helipads on highway interchanges won't make air taxis viable. Passengers would still have to take a ground taxi to the final destination, thus eliminating any significant time savings on most routes. In order for air taxis to make economic sense they have to bring passengers directly to within a few blocks of the destination.
        RC_ITR 4y ago
        Again, maybe you're not in the US, but here we chose to build those interchanges right downtown, Say what you will about America, but we built our environment to accommodate decentralized forms of transit, it's sort of our thing.
- carstenhag 4y ago
  1-2 years ago the cto guy from lilium held a presentation at $itCompanyInGermany where I was at. The plan back then was to be same/twice the price of taxis, starting and landing on roofs. Oh, and the cto was telling so much bullshit that it was hard to listen to. Blockchains was of course there, but also stuff I already forgot. I guess it's mostly to impress investors and to collect money, but bs is still bs.

NonNefarious 4y ago

"If you can only operate out of airports (without vtol), the useful range of the airplane will be significantly reduced" Why do you say that? That's backward. VTOL consumes a huge amount of energy, far more than a traditional rolling takeoff.