5 ms·

The admissions were from when he was 12 and 16; many so societies generally believe in redemption from childhood transgressions.

robswc 4y ago
12 is fine... 16 is iffy... it was only 3 years ago. I'm personally a bit frustrated with the ever changing standards for adolescents. They are as responsible or naive as people want them to be for whatever their bias calls for. (not saying you btw, just in general).
- t-writescode 4y ago
  Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything.
  - robswc 4y ago
    Neither am I... I honestly have no idea what the kids punishment should be. Not irredeemable by any means... that seems cruel for the sake of being cruel... but its also not fair to have people compete with a known cheater (and potentially, hopefully not, a liar). He may have to take a long break.
  - nordsieck 4y ago
    > Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything. What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry?
    - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
      >What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry? People are on it for simply peeing in public. And teenage minors in a relationship sending nudes to each other due to a lack of "Romeo and Juliet" laws. Not much is black & white.
      - sixstringtheory 4y ago
        Now that the easy stuff is out of the way, what do you think about people on the registry for violent sexual assault?
      - willcipriano 4y ago
        I talked to a guy who was on a sex offender registry for "urination in public" at a bar one time. Sounded like a travisty of justice when he explained it that way. Talked to someone else about him afterwards and while yes he was "just peeing in public" he did so in the view of a few young girls who walked past his house on their way to school on multiple occasions and with a erection. Knew another guy who did a few years in prison for "just a bag of weed", again that was true in a technical sense, he was on parole for a strong arm robbery and had the bag in plain view when he got pulled over. I'm not saying nobody is ever innocent, but everyone I talk to claims to be and it never holds up.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - andirk 4y ago
      Is there a National Murder Registry?
      - twelve40 4y ago
        yes in a way, it's called criminal record also probably because people who commit murders and do the time are not always in a permanent urge to do more of that, unlike.
    - claudiawerner 4y ago
      There are several good arguments put forward by criminologists, legal scholars, and other researchers which argue that the registry is ineffective at best and unjust at worst. Not to take away from the point you are making, but this is simply not a good example of an uncontroversial case of scarlet lettering.
- wisnoskij 4y ago
  neither ages make him exempt from repercussions. If a 9yo pro chess prodigy had cheated in a profession tournament he absolutely should of gotten temporary bans or fines. But even if a 60 yo chess prodigy used a chess engine in one online stakless match, other than a week chess.com ban I do nto see what sort of punishment would want to give them that would be reasonable. What we are talking about here is a minor who admitted to using a chess engine in a meaningless online match 2 times. Like all the grandmasters don't play with chess engines just to see how they work.
- largepeepee 4y ago
  12 is only "fine" if you were caught and demonstrated you learned to stop. 12 is horrible if you have a track record of blatant cheating and only getting worse for years till they permanently banned you.
  - robswc 4y ago
    True. I can agree with this. I guess I say fine in the sense that its more forgivable for a 12 year old to cheat. I would never suggest a 12 year old shouldn't be punished if caught in the act... or even retroactively.
devindotcom 4y ago
Report says over 100, as late as 2020.
- curiousllama 4y ago
  The report hasn't even been released yet - it didn't exist when they allowed him to play
- smaryjerry 4y ago
  He already admitted to cheating a lot. He didn’t say he cheated in two games, he said cheated at two times in his life. He even detailed how his second time was pumping up his rating, you can’t pump a rating with only one game. Sounds like if it went to 2020 then he would have been 17 at least, not 16 but that’s pretty close at least.
  - msbarnett 4y ago
    No, he said this: > “I cheated on random games on Chess.com. I was confronted. I confessed. And this is the single biggest mistake of my life. And I am completely ashamed. I am telling the world because I don’t want misrepresentations and I don’t want rumours. I have never cheated in an over-the-board game. And other than when I was 12 years old I have never cheated in a tournament with prize money.” This report identifies 3 separate tournaments with prize money in 2020 alone (2 SCC Grand Prix, and the Pro Chess League) that he appears to have cheated in, blatantly contradicting what he previously said.
lamontcg 4y ago
This assertion keeps on being made and it seems almost deliberately obtuse to me. If you do something bad when you are 17.9 should we wipe the slate clean once the odometer rolls over to exactly 18.0 where for some reason that age creates a solid barrier where the person emerges like a chrysalis and all their sins are washed clean? And as a 50 year old, the difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old are not very big. An unfortunate fact is that if you fuck up pretty big when you're 16 that people aren't going to trust you very much when you're 19. You need to do the time to build up more collateral. I've seen people who were assholes when they were teenagers change, but they didn't wake up on some magic birthday a new person. They were still assholes in their early 20s but their trajectory was such that by the time their early 30s came around they had changed themselves.
- fairity 4y ago
  The rate at which we forgive and forget prior actions should decrease as someone ages in a monotonic way. Reason being an individual’s capacity and willingness to learn and change their values and behavior decreases with time. Sure, the 18yo cliff makes no sense.
  - tzs 4y ago
    > The rate at which we forgive and forget prior actions should decrease as someone ages in a monotonic way. Everybody ages in a monotonic way. :-)
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Pretty much hard disagree with that. 50 year olds may be set in their ways because they don't see any need to change and what they've got going works for them, but you can change at any age.
- antiterra 4y ago
  When I said ‘generally’ I meant generally. Children “prosecuted as an adult” is a thing. I also said there’s a common belief in redemption, not automatic forgiveness. As for the difference between a 16-year-old and 19 not being big, that probably just depends. At 19, I was absolutely mortified at things I did in high school.
Taek 4y ago
I don't think it's unreasonable to issue a 5 year ban from competitive chess to a 16 year old who gets caught cheating online in a cash prize tournament. Hans is only 3 years past his admitted cheating event, and I don't think its unjust to say that his cheating was too recent to justify giving him a second chance. Maybe when he's 24 or 30 we can try again.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

robswc 4y ago

12 is fine... 16 is iffy... it was only 3 years ago. I'm personally a bit frustrated with the ever changing standards for adolescents. They are as responsible or naive as people want them to be for whatever their bias calls for. (not saying you btw, just in general).

t-writescode 4y ago
Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything.
- robswc 4y ago
  Neither am I... I honestly have no idea what the kids punishment should be. Not irredeemable by any means... that seems cruel for the sake of being cruel... but its also not fair to have people compete with a known cheater (and potentially, hopefully not, a liar). He may have to take a long break.
- nordsieck 4y ago
  > Personally, I'm not a fan of permanent Scarlet Letters for .... I think I may go so far as to say anything. What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry?
  - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
    >What's your opinion of the National Sex Offender Registry? People are on it for simply peeing in public. And teenage minors in a relationship sending nudes to each other due to a lack of "Romeo and Juliet" laws. Not much is black & white.
    - sixstringtheory 4y ago
      Now that the easy stuff is out of the way, what do you think about people on the registry for violent sexual assault?
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      I talked to a guy who was on a sex offender registry for "urination in public" at a bar one time. Sounded like a travisty of justice when he explained it that way. Talked to someone else about him afterwards and while yes he was "just peeing in public" he did so in the view of a few young girls who walked past his house on their way to school on multiple occasions and with a erection. Knew another guy who did a few years in prison for "just a bag of weed", again that was true in a technical sense, he was on parole for a strong arm robbery and had the bag in plain view when he got pulled over. I'm not saying nobody is ever innocent, but everyone I talk to claims to be and it never holds up.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - andirk 4y ago
    Is there a National Murder Registry?
    - twelve40 4y ago
      yes in a way, it's called criminal record also probably because people who commit murders and do the time are not always in a permanent urge to do more of that, unlike.
  - claudiawerner 4y ago
    There are several good arguments put forward by criminologists, legal scholars, and other researchers which argue that the registry is ineffective at best and unjust at worst. Not to take away from the point you are making, but this is simply not a good example of an uncontroversial case of scarlet lettering.
wisnoskij 4y ago
neither ages make him exempt from repercussions. If a 9yo pro chess prodigy had cheated in a profession tournament he absolutely should of gotten temporary bans or fines. But even if a 60 yo chess prodigy used a chess engine in one online stakless match, other than a week chess.com ban I do nto see what sort of punishment would want to give them that would be reasonable. What we are talking about here is a minor who admitted to using a chess engine in a meaningless online match 2 times. Like all the grandmasters don't play with chess engines just to see how they work.
largepeepee 4y ago
12 is only "fine" if you were caught and demonstrated you learned to stop. 12 is horrible if you have a track record of blatant cheating and only getting worse for years till they permanently banned you.
- robswc 4y ago
  True. I can agree with this. I guess I say fine in the sense that its more forgivable for a 12 year old to cheat. I would never suggest a 12 year old shouldn't be punished if caught in the act... or even retroactively.

devindotcom 4y ago

Report says over 100, as late as 2020.

curiousllama 4y ago
The report hasn't even been released yet - it didn't exist when they allowed him to play
smaryjerry 4y ago
He already admitted to cheating a lot. He didn’t say he cheated in two games, he said cheated at two times in his life. He even detailed how his second time was pumping up his rating, you can’t pump a rating with only one game. Sounds like if it went to 2020 then he would have been 17 at least, not 16 but that’s pretty close at least.
- msbarnett 4y ago
  No, he said this: > “I cheated on random games on Chess.com. I was confronted. I confessed. And this is the single biggest mistake of my life. And I am completely ashamed. I am telling the world because I don’t want misrepresentations and I don’t want rumours. I have never cheated in an over-the-board game. And other than when I was 12 years old I have never cheated in a tournament with prize money.” This report identifies 3 separate tournaments with prize money in 2020 alone (2 SCC Grand Prix, and the Pro Chess League) that he appears to have cheated in, blatantly contradicting what he previously said.

lamontcg 4y ago

This assertion keeps on being made and it seems almost deliberately obtuse to me. If you do something bad when you are 17.9 should we wipe the slate clean once the odometer rolls over to exactly 18.0 where for some reason that age creates a solid barrier where the person emerges like a chrysalis and all their sins are washed clean? And as a 50 year old, the difference between a 16 year old and a 19 year old are not very big. An unfortunate fact is that if you fuck up pretty big when you're 16 that people aren't going to trust you very much when you're 19. You need to do the time to build up more collateral. I've seen people who were assholes when they were teenagers change, but they didn't wake up on some magic birthday a new person. They were still assholes in their early 20s but their trajectory was such that by the time their early 30s came around they had changed themselves.

fairity 4y ago
The rate at which we forgive and forget prior actions should decrease as someone ages in a monotonic way. Reason being an individual’s capacity and willingness to learn and change their values and behavior decreases with time. Sure, the 18yo cliff makes no sense.
- tzs 4y ago
  > The rate at which we forgive and forget prior actions should decrease as someone ages in a monotonic way. Everybody ages in a monotonic way. :-)
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Pretty much hard disagree with that. 50 year olds may be set in their ways because they don't see any need to change and what they've got going works for them, but you can change at any age.
antiterra 4y ago
When I said ‘generally’ I meant generally. Children “prosecuted as an adult” is a thing. I also said there’s a common belief in redemption, not automatic forgiveness. As for the difference between a 16-year-old and 19 not being big, that probably just depends. At 19, I was absolutely mortified at things I did in high school.

Taek 4y ago

I don't think it's unreasonable to issue a 5 year ban from competitive chess to a 16 year old who gets caught cheating online in a cash prize tournament. Hans is only 3 years past his admitted cheating event, and I don't think its unjust to say that his cheating was too recent to justify giving him a second chance. Maybe when he's 24 or 30 we can try again.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]