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There's nothing wise or moral about this decision. Mandating a technology standard, purely for personal preference and convenience reasons -- not for reasons r

• arcticbull 4y ago
  Apple hasn't changed the 'fast-changing' lightning connector since 2012, and USB-A lasted from 1996 to, well, present. USB-C came out in 2014 and is likely going to outlive us both. Connectors simply don't change that fast, and I'm not sure why people think they do. I think even the EU can regulate on that kind of schedule.
  • deleted 4y ago
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  • Moru 4y ago
    The only reason connectors would change fast is to sell another cable and charger every time you buy a phone.
    • jonwinstanley 4y ago
      Or to make them slimmer, lighter, improve performance or improve the user experience.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • kelnos 4y ago
        I think with the size of USB-C and Lightning, we are pretty close to the point (if not there already) where structural limitations are not going to let us go much (if any) smaller. No one wants a connector that will break after 10 uses. USB-C, electrically, has enough headroom that performance should not be an issue for a very, very, very long time. Already you can push more data over a USB-C cable than a phone can meaningfully handle.
        • rtkwe 4y ago
          The only thing that really comes to mind is we could go to fiber core for crazy data speeds but those are so delicate I don't think the improvement would be worth the hassle unless we have a big improvement there.
          • fennecfoxy 4y ago
            I think C could easily adopt a fiber, there's the "tongue" bit in the middle of the socket, and empty space in the middle of the plug, could easily have a fiber run down the middle there.
            • rtkwe 4y ago
              The difficulty isn't in fitting the physical fiber, they're tiny, it's in the delicacy of highspeed fiber optics.
            • JAlexoid 4y ago
              There are literally USB-C cables with fiber cores, right now... on the market. A USB-C cable with fiber core is what Oculus Go suggested to connect to a PC.
              • rtkwe 4y ago
                Those use a converter in the cable itself though right?
      • int_19h 4y ago
        Standardization also improves user experience. And it does so here and now, as opposed to some hypothetical future gains.
    • pySSK 4y ago
      iPhones don't even ship with a charger anymore and they definitely did not lower their prices when the decision to leave them out. It's a win-win for them – they can claim to be more environmentally conscious etc. while reducing their BOM cost. Apple and other phone companies don't depend on selling cables and chargers. If they did, they would have been doing a much better job and they'd be more like Anker and Griffin.
  • dmitriid 4y ago
    > USB-A lasted from 1996 to, well, present. USB-C came out in 2014 and is likely going to outlive us both. Connectors simply don't change that fast How convenient of you to forget Mini-USB and Micro-USB and regular USB-B
    • deleted 4y ago
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    • fomine3 4y ago
      and Dock?
    • jdeibele 4y ago
      One end of the cable changed but I think the point was that the other end, the part that was built into your laptop, didn't. I still have a stash of USB-B, mini-USB, and micro-USB cables with the USB-A because I've got a printer, a camera, and devices (Kindle, older battery) that use those ports. I have a USB-C -> USB-A hub. In 5-10 years from now, I might have gone all USB-C.
• Jtsummers 4y ago
  > There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide. Lightning was good when it came out (compared to the various micro-USB options), but it's not held up. Even Apple knows this and they've moved away from it on their iPads.
  • Daniel_sk 4y ago
    In the same regard it will be now hard to move from USB-C to something better due to regulation.
    • mmastrac 4y ago
      As others in this thread have mentioned, the "unofficial" regulation that drove most non-apple phones to micro-USB, and then to USB-C did not prevent progress. The laws are not going to mandate USB-C of a certain revision, etc. The laws simply mandate cooperation in a market that has been mostly cooperative, save for a single participant.
      • sieabahlpark 4y ago
      • Rebelgecko 4y ago
        If I'm reading it properly the law does mandate certain USB revisions. For example devices that pull more than 15 watts but less than 100 have to support the 2021 version of IEC 62680-1-2.
        • TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
          Even if laws were written in stone, we could just get new stones, or plaster over and write new laws in to the old stones. The Personal Electronic Device Port Amendment Act 2025, and so on and so forth.
• kristiandupont 4y ago
  >purely for personal preference and convenience reasons Those are not the reasons.
• wongarsu 4y ago
  It gets kind of lost in the summary, but only devices that are rechargeable via a wired cable have to be chargable via USB-C. So going fully wireless is perfectly legal. It's also perfectly legal to offer other charging ports in addition to USB-C, though that's less likely to happen in phones. And while this regulation puts some limitations on innovation in connectors, Thunderbolt shows that there is lots of room to innovate within the USB-C format (in a way that's compatible to normal USB).
  • datavirtue 4y ago
    Permitting wireless charging without a USB-C option basically topedos the legislation. This whole affair is going to end up as an embarrassing meme.
    • 9dev 4y ago
      Well i dunno, it worked tremendously well for USB 2, don’t you think? Might be my age, but I distinctly remember having heaps of different charging cables. Gone, thanks to EU legislation. Why would it be different this time?
      • RankingMember 4y ago
        I too remember the bad old days of a different charger for every phone, and for no real reason in most cases (other than profit-motive).
        • jhoechtl 4y ago
          It was about the charger and they settled on USB as the outlet. Now the EU is settling on the socket on the devices, that's dofferent.
          • anilakar 4y ago
            You're not completely honest here, though. It was either Type A jack for power supplies without a cable, or Type B micro jack for fixed cables, and the latter very much specifies the port on the device.
• Arkhaine_kupo 4y ago
  > There's nothing wise There is, for example the fact that the standard is set by comittee means large players have more say but cannot dictate the market. This allows innovation that doesn't benefit one party. > purely for personal preference and convenience reasons Not the reason behind the move > not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security Those are some of the benefits but not all > especially for things that change as fast as phones Connectors are standards, plus phones do not change that often, they get marginally better but most of them have looked largely the same for a decade. > There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above what the currently available standardized connectors could provide Previously there was also a long history of interoperability between Apple designs that no longer exists. And before that there was a long history of Apple being a tiny company constantly on the verge of bankruptcy. Long history is a pretty short time nowadays. > Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future. I cannot wait to have the slowest charging phone on the market as a selling point. > he EU is mandating technological stagnation. The EU mandating GDPR has increased security protection on data around the globe, and decreased bloatware. A large player like europe setting a standard means that companies follow that legislation to not have 2 products one for Europe and one outside.
• kelnos 4y ago
  > There's a long history of Apple using proprietary connectors to achieve performance specifications above... Oh please, Apple has barely improved Lightning since its introduction a decade ago (2012!). Yes, back then, it was better than what was available, but the industry has moved on, and Apple has stagnated. > Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future. Unlikely. For one thing, wireless charging is still much slower than what you can get with a cable, and for another, users will not tolerate needing to lug around a charging pad (with its own cable), or hope that someone nearby has one. Yes, I know similar things about tolerance were said about the removal of headphone jacks, but I don't think this is quite the same situation. > The EU is mandating technological stagnation. They will always be behind the market. I haven't read the text of the law, but I would hope that it's flexible enough to allow for embracing improvements to technology. But even if that process is slow, I don't think that's a bad thing. Fast-changing technology generally does not really help users (it can, but I think more often it does not). Yes, benefits can be realized over time, but these sorts of changes create confusion and waste if not done well. I really don't care if Apple wants to put a new connector on iPhones, but it takes them 3 years instead of 1 year to do it because of legal/regulatory issues. > Mandating a technology standard, purely for personal preference and convenience reasons -- not for reasons related to safety, or pollution, or security Pollution is* a concern here, though I agree that's probably not the primary reason this law was drafted. I'm with you on the general discomfort around regulations targeted toward preference/convenience. But I think it's a little unfair to call it "personal preference". Lighting is inferior to USB-C in almost every way (the only advantage Lightning has is that it's slightly smaller, but not to a degree that really matters). Apple continues to use Lightning out of stubbornness and NIH syndrome, and that hurts consumers overall. But consider all the places that have two cables. I've seen dual-cable setups in Lyft/Uber vehicles, and at friendly coffee shops and stuff like that (hell, I still see a few places that additionally have micro-USB cables). What a huge waste of material! And yeah, you can buy single cables that have multiple "heads" on them, but I very rarely see those in the wild. If there was actually a good technical reason why we have this split, then sure, > especially for things that change as fast as phones I don't think that's really true anymore. Most smartphones are basically the same as they were 5 years ago. Incrementally better camera hardware, incrementally better display technology, more RAM, faster processors, more storage. But I see very little change year to year. Maybe there will be some big new changes coming soon, but I don't see any evidence of that. > is one of the most short-sighted and naive things any government could do.* Heh, I think you underestimate government capacity for short-sightedness. This particular thing seems pretty middling and mediocre to me on that scale.
• aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
  >Hell, in all likelihood, Apple is likely to ditch a charging connection altogether in favor of wireless charging in the near future. Lol. Literally not possible.
  • gnicholas 4y ago
    Why? I can definitely see Apple rolling this out to the Pro line first, then the regular iPhones, and then the SE. It could be like the home button, which disappeared on the X and then rolled through the 11s, and the SE will be the last to go. The benefit will be better water/dust-proofing, and slightly more internal room for battery or whatever else. I have only just started charging wirelessly, but I find it works great for me. I know wired charging is faster, but only a handful of times a year do I care about that.
    • aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
      For one, you can’t use the phone during wireless charging. I know, ”akshually, you can use it, you just can’t hold it in your hand!”. Anyway, you can’t use it normally - it must be kept on the mat to charge. Also, there are a bunch of accessories that require physical connection. Search for “iphone pendrive” for instance. Bluetooth headphones still have laughable latency for music production, and decent quality full-duplex audio isn’t there either. iOS developers will also tell you how reliable wireless debugging is. (Hint: it’s abysmal)
      • gnicholas 4y ago
        You're right, that is an important caveat! I've not run into an issue, since I mostly charge at night, and rarely is my battery in perilous territory (even though it's the diminutive 13 Mini). On the few occasions where I was using the phone and needed to charge it, I just switched to using my computer, which I usually have with me. And if I were charging at a Starbucks or something, I could use the phone while charging, just flat on the table.
      • rtkwe 4y ago
        There's the magsafe wireless charging now though right so you could slap that on and hold the phone maybe? I don't have an iPhone so I'm not aware how thick those pucks are off the top of my head but seems doable. Those other two use cases of music creation and thumb drives are a tiny market on iPhone I could see Apple abandoning them entirely.
• henvic 4y ago
  > The EU is mandating technological stagnation. They will always be behind the market. Well said!
• franczesko 4y ago
  EU is doing pretty much what Apple does all the time - forcing standards.
  • henvic 4y ago
    Apple gives you the option to adopt or not. EU thugs, not.
• sacrosancty 4y ago
  Not a fan of metric screw threads? Mandates were needed in some countries to change from imperial to metric because the market can't make such a non-incremental move on its own even if it's good for everyone.
• rlt 4y ago
  I'd like to see Apple remove the port completely and rely on wireless charging and communication, only in the EU, just to spite the EU.
  • jackvalentine 4y ago
    What an odd thing to say.
  • fennecfoxy 4y ago
    If Apple could use their own proprietary wifi/bluetooth etc too, then they would. Imagine the _profit_.
• brokenmachine 4y ago
  >in favor of wireless charging So, force people to have more stuff and use the less power efficent option. As well as the glued-in non-replaceable batteries that were such a wonderful futuristic idea before. Thank the flying spaghetti monster that the EU is "behind the market", because the market is consumer-hostile garbage.
  • brokenmachine 4y ago
    Hilarious that I got downvoted for that, don't people realize that having usb-c doesn't exclude wireless charging? My current phone has both usb-c and wireless charging. Removing the port is undeniably a downgrade, how can anyone not understand that?
• birksherty 4y ago
  It's not for all that reason. But to make companies follow standard. So it's a great decision. These companies have been doing what they want for far too long like removing headphone jack, removable battery etc.
• outworlder 4y ago
  > especially for things that change as fast as phones USB-C is forward looking. It will be quite a while before it will no longer be useful.