4 ms·

One of the constant refrains in the Anglo-Saxon world is to describe Europe and the EU as permanently on the verge of collapse. It has not occurred so far, and

by akie 4y ago

One of the constant refrains in the Anglo-Saxon world is to describe Europe and the EU as permanently on the verge of collapse. It has not occurred so far, and it will not occur this time either.

csdvrx 4y ago
Well, with inflation, war, various shortages, lack of power for the winter, I'm very trustful in human nature, but that may be a little too much for Europe.
- weatherlite 4y ago
  They could always make a new deal with the Russians if they will face imminent famine and the collapse of industry (which I don't believe they are). All in all sounds like hyperbole to me. A harsh recession is very likely though. Seriously what is the theory here, they care about Ukraine so much they are willing to implode for it with no plan b? I find it hard to believe.
  - nradov 4y ago
    It's not that the other Europeans particularly care about Ukraine. They remember what happened last time they tried to appease an aggressive, expansionist dictator. If Ukraine is allowed to fall then next it will be Moldova, Lithuania, Poland, and so on. Better to take the pain now while the problem is still manageable rather than letting the situation spiral out of control.
    - weatherlite 4y ago
      I generally agree but I go back to the pessimistic article that (humorously?) predicts Europeans will go back to living conditions from 200 years ago. I don't think rational European leaders will let that happen. It could be that they completely lost their minds (there are signs...) but I give them some more credit for now. Even the Ukranians themselves probably have their limits on how much they care about Donbas and Crimea.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    Last time it was Germany. - It militarized Rhineland, nothing happened - It got Luftwaffe operational again, nothing happened - It annexed Austria, nothing happened - It was given Sudetenland, it was even encouraged by allies - It annexed rest of Czechoslovakia, nothing happened. - It started war with Poland, Allies declared war and then nothing happened. - Only when Germany started to conquer Norway, Allies have finally started to wake up.
    - weatherlite 4y ago
      There are parallels but also a whole bunch of differences between Nazi Germany and Russia.
  - bitL 4y ago
    They can't, with blown up pipes they can't just start receiving gas they need. That gives credibility to this theory - if there are mass protests and new EU governments as a result, they can't go back anyway as there is no longer infrastructure for gas delivery anymore. It really looks like some group wants EU all in, so we should be prepared for the worst possible outcome (WW3, some life remaining on the planet) if that's even possible.
    - weatherlite 4y ago
      > They can't, with blown up pipes they can't just start receiving gas they need. Pipes can be reconstructed, peace deals can be made and shut down gas fields can be reopened (looking at you Groningen). > It really looks like some group wants EU all in, so we should be prepared for the worst possible outcome (WW3, some life remaining on the planet) if that's even possible. Well if that happens it happens - what's your idea of preparing? To me a quick death sounds pretty good in such a case.
      - bitL 4y ago
        Pipes can't be reconstructed quickly and can be blown up again later. My guess southern hemisphere might have some chance of survival if SHTF so that's where I will be heading. Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation, only a fraction will be vaporized instantly.
        weatherlite 4y ago
        You must be a hoot at parties! :) Look I'm not saying it's an impossibility but I don't think it's very likely any time soon. > Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation Most people die a pretty shitty death from cancer / degenration / dementia. I can't see how you can escape that, it awaits us all .(btw why the south? Are they immune to nuclear winter / food shortages / climate change?)
        bitL 4y ago
- tomjen3 4y ago
  Thats overstating it. Things aren't looking good here in Denmark, but it takes far more than some bad economic times to crush us. Inflation is bad, but not unprecedented, neither is energy price spikes. We are not currently seeing a shortage of much, certainly things have gone up in price, but we do not have the shortages we had with Covid, there are no restrictions on what I can do and the war hasn't impacted me in any way, except that it is the thing on the news. It is possible we will lack power for the winter, its also possible putin nukes somebody. Not likely.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
titzer 4y ago
Right!!?? You didn't die yesterday, so you won't die today. In reality, countries collapse in all kinds of different ways quite regularly.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  It is like Express.co.uk: EU on the brink!!!!!
nradov 4y ago
Europe collapsed twice during the 20th century and several times before that. It will probably happen again but the exact timing is impossible to accurately predict.
carlob 4y ago
Except it appears the author is Italian, not Anglo-Saxon.
trgn 4y ago
The article just takes "cui bono" and runs with it. Nordstream blown up by CIA, wink wink. Also, obviously!, total collapse of industry within 2-3 years and return to serfdom.

by akie 4y ago

One of the constant refrains in the Anglo-Saxon world is to describe Europe and the EU as permanently on the verge of collapse. It has not occurred so far, and it will not occur this time either.

csdvrx 4y ago

Well, with inflation, war, various shortages, lack of power for the winter, I'm very trustful in human nature, but that may be a little too much for Europe.

weatherlite 4y ago
They could always make a new deal with the Russians if they will face imminent famine and the collapse of industry (which I don't believe they are). All in all sounds like hyperbole to me. A harsh recession is very likely though. Seriously what is the theory here, they care about Ukraine so much they are willing to implode for it with no plan b? I find it hard to believe.
- nradov 4y ago
  It's not that the other Europeans particularly care about Ukraine. They remember what happened last time they tried to appease an aggressive, expansionist dictator. If Ukraine is allowed to fall then next it will be Moldova, Lithuania, Poland, and so on. Better to take the pain now while the problem is still manageable rather than letting the situation spiral out of control.
  - weatherlite 4y ago
    I generally agree but I go back to the pessimistic article that (humorously?) predicts Europeans will go back to living conditions from 200 years ago. I don't think rational European leaders will let that happen. It could be that they completely lost their minds (there are signs...) but I give them some more credit for now. Even the Ukranians themselves probably have their limits on how much they care about Donbas and Crimea.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  Last time it was Germany. - It militarized Rhineland, nothing happened - It got Luftwaffe operational again, nothing happened - It annexed Austria, nothing happened - It was given Sudetenland, it was even encouraged by allies - It annexed rest of Czechoslovakia, nothing happened. - It started war with Poland, Allies declared war and then nothing happened. - Only when Germany started to conquer Norway, Allies have finally started to wake up.
  - weatherlite 4y ago
    There are parallels but also a whole bunch of differences between Nazi Germany and Russia.
- bitL 4y ago
  They can't, with blown up pipes they can't just start receiving gas they need. That gives credibility to this theory - if there are mass protests and new EU governments as a result, they can't go back anyway as there is no longer infrastructure for gas delivery anymore. It really looks like some group wants EU all in, so we should be prepared for the worst possible outcome (WW3, some life remaining on the planet) if that's even possible.
  - weatherlite 4y ago
    > They can't, with blown up pipes they can't just start receiving gas they need. Pipes can be reconstructed, peace deals can be made and shut down gas fields can be reopened (looking at you Groningen). > It really looks like some group wants EU all in, so we should be prepared for the worst possible outcome (WW3, some life remaining on the planet) if that's even possible. Well if that happens it happens - what's your idea of preparing? To me a quick death sounds pretty good in such a case.
    - bitL 4y ago
      Pipes can't be reconstructed quickly and can be blown up again later. My guess southern hemisphere might have some chance of survival if SHTF so that's where I will be heading. Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation, only a fraction will be vaporized instantly.
      - weatherlite 4y ago
        You must be a hoot at parties! :) Look I'm not saying it's an impossibility but I don't think it's very likely any time soon. > Most people will die gruesome prolonged deaths from starvation, broken bones or radiation Most people die a pretty shitty death from cancer / degenration / dementia. I can't see how you can escape that, it awaits us all .(btw why the south? Are they immune to nuclear winter / food shortages / climate change?)
        bitL 4y ago
tomjen3 4y ago
Thats overstating it. Things aren't looking good here in Denmark, but it takes far more than some bad economic times to crush us. Inflation is bad, but not unprecedented, neither is energy price spikes. We are not currently seeing a shortage of much, certainly things have gone up in price, but we do not have the shortages we had with Covid, there are no restrictions on what I can do and the war hasn't impacted me in any way, except that it is the thing on the news. It is possible we will lack power for the winter, its also possible putin nukes somebody. Not likely.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

titzer 4y ago

Right!!?? You didn't die yesterday, so you won't die today. In reality, countries collapse in all kinds of different ways quite regularly.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
It is like Express.co.uk: EU on the brink!!!!!

nradov 4y ago

Europe collapsed twice during the 20th century and several times before that. It will probably happen again but the exact timing is impossible to accurately predict.

carlob 4y ago

Except it appears the author is Italian, not Anglo-Saxon.

trgn 4y ago

The article just takes "cui bono" and runs with it. Nordstream blown up by CIA, wink wink. Also, obviously!, total collapse of industry within 2-3 years and return to serfdom.