6 ms·

You think they're doing this by accident?

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Yeah, there's some trolls but the Babylon Bee folk seem to be genuine, as far as I can tell, even though I find their content unpleasant, unfunny and dangerous even as satire: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/06/babylon-bee-satire-from-right.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/06/babylon-bee-sati...
- junofan 4y ago
  Dangerous? Come on.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    Yes. https://babylonbee.com/news/are-you-a-fascist-know-the-signs https://babylonbee.com/news/are-you-a-fascist-know-the-signs Is this satire or are they just genuinely angry about stuff that isn't really happening? Hard to tell. > You have more than one kid and you love being a parent: Dedication to the family is a distraction from service to the state. Just abort, you fascist – don't you want to be liberated?
    - theflyingelvis 4y ago
      That’s actually pretty humorous
    - iinnPP 4y ago
      It's very clearly satire and not dangerous. I have a very serious question for anyone pushing a limit on free speech: where does it end? My answer is that the Right will dictate the limits to speech, not the Left. Stop pushing for this. It will end poorly for everyone. The people who are already suffering will be the hardest hit.
    - DoctorOW 4y ago
      Babylon Bee is probably among the least dangerous of modern conservatism. Babylon Bee writers themselves have been known to admit they have a really hard time writing anything decent. Their market is conservatives, not fans of humor. As such, any This is because the secret to humor is surprise. Look at the quote you used. Did anyone not see the headline and not put together it'd be the usual "The real fascism" talking points?
    - refurb 4y ago
      I mean that's clearly satire by the very fact they are calling their readers fascists. Or do you think people read that and say "oh yeah, I guess I am a fascist!"
    - swivelmaster 4y ago
      This is dangerously lazy comedy writing, I’ll give it that. When it does take a turn though, it appears that they really do believe that Biden supporters are literally murdering Trump voters in the streets. Or they want their readers to believe it. The thing is, when you’re writing comedy and you break the fourth wall to say “okay here’s what I actually think,” as this article does, you’re no longer in parody territory if most of what you say is exactly what a common person believes. Mixing in satire that sounds exactly like fascist propaganda is pretty transparently manipulative.
      - someguy5344523 4y ago
        > it appears that they really do believe that Biden supporters are literally murdering Trump voters in the streets They are: https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/22/us/north-dakota-teenager-vehicular-homicide https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/22/us/north-dakota-teenager-vehi...
        ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        > Four of Brandt's neighbors agreed that his mental health contributed to the incident, and said they don't believe the incident was motivated by politics. Quote from Fox News. Meanwhile Trump has been telling people he was a far left activist who intentionally mowed someone down in cold blood and the mainstream media refuses to cover the story (possibly because Trump made up most of the details). There's some weird stuff about the the crazy guy saying the kid was in an extremist Republican outfit, but as far as I can tell that's just the ravings of a drunk with mental health issues who just run someone over while DUI.
        swivelmaster 4y ago
        “They” really doing a lot of work for you there… Do you honestly believe this or are you just trying as hard as humanly possible to make a pedantic point for the sake of argument?
    - _fat_santa 4y ago
      That's funny though I will say, the Bee makes some pretty in the weeds jokes, way more so than the Onion. If you keep up with politics and shit happening on twitter it's hilarious, if you're not then it's hard to understand that joke. EDIT: That joke in question is about the new Italian PM. What they are satirizing is in her acceptance speech she talked about "family, god and country" and the left immediately called her fascist for it.
      - tstrimple 4y ago
        Or maybe calling her a fascist is the result of her rhetoric against LGBT folks and immigrants while leading a political party (The Brothers of Italy) with fascist roots and her comments praising fascists.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        > What they are satirizing is in her acceptance speech she talked about "family, god and country" and the left immediately called her fascist for it See, I don't think that's a thing that happened. And if you satirise something that never happened, but your audience all think happened, because someone on Twitter told them it happened then you're in a weird area. And I can see how that could happen in other online cliques too. I think if it happened in a clique I was in and cared about, I'd call it out, not celebrate it. But that assumes you know it didn't happen, and that you care. So fundamentally it's not the satire that's the problem, it's groups of people believing stuff that isn't true.
      - hairofadog 4y ago
        That's not why they called her a fascist.
    - headsoup 4y ago
      The hard to tell part points to issues in society, not the satire.
    - TeeMassive 4y ago
      Taking things seriously and taking socially reprehensible and authoritarian positions? Sounds like confession through projection.
    - bena 4y ago
      Yeah. That isn't satire or a joke. It's wearing the cloth, but it's really a thinly veiled screed against the "libruls". It's positing that people are calling you fascist for saying Merry Christmas or voting for Trump. No one is doing that. Not a single goddamn person is doing that. Not a fucking soul is calling you fascist for celebrating the 4th of July. But if you support or have supported an insurrection on your nation's capitol to install the loser of an election to the highest office in the land. You may have fascist tendencies. If you wish to install a theocracy and enforce the rules of your religion onto others. You may have fascist tendencies. Then they throw in the mustache, goose-stepping bit. Which while both were done by actual fascists and are clear nods to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party, they aren't necessary or sufficient conditions. Then they go on with the Biden criticisms in which they distort or ignore things to make claims. Like "You use federal law enforcement to intimidate and attack political opponents". Just completely ignoring the fact that it's neither intimidation nor an attack to investigate people who broke the law. Regardless if they're a "political opponent" or not. Which is kind of hilarious as one of Trump's campaign promises/slogans was literally a promise to use law enforcement to attack a political opponent. As with most cases, the "joke" with The Babylon Bee is "fuck liberals".
      - ccn0p 4y ago
        well. as stated many times, you are upset and don't find this funny, but many people do find this funny. So is that comedy? Also, jokes that are about literal things are, well, usually more boring. Have people called me a fascist for saying Merry Christmas? Nope. But... have I seen legitimate news outlets using the word fascist and Christian in the same article? Yep. Did it indirectly draw a connection between the two? Sure seems like it to me. Hence, the joke.
        bena 4y ago
        Why do you think I'm upset? That's a weird thing to accuse people of right off the bat. Some people also find cruelty funny. That wouldn't make cruelty funny. Yes, when talking about people who are Christian nationalists trying to install a theocracy, you may have the words "fascist" and "Christian" in the same article. But it's not in the same ballpark, or even the same sport, as saying you're being called a fascist for saying "Merry Christmas". If anything, it's motte and bailey disguised as a joke. They're trying to get people to see anyone associating anything even Christian adjacent to fascism as unreasonable people. But. You can be Christian and not be a fascist. You can go do Christian things, worship Christian gods, attend Christian churches, have Christian holidays. No one is going to say anything about it. The minute you try to force me to accept your Christian things, worship your gods, attend your Churches, and celebrate your holidays over all others, is the minute we start having problems. The minute we begin saying that you are a fascist in addition to being a Christian. Because no one is saying Christianity is fascism. But that's what that "joke" does. It's basically staking the claim that people complaining about Christian fascists are saying that all Christians are fascists. Or at the very least, saying that's a leap you can make. And it's not.
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      What's the danger exactly? Not outlandish conjecture like "it emboldens fascists", but something actually quantifiable.
- nyokodo 4y ago
  > I find their content …dangerous even as satire This is precisely why we need strong protections for satirists from those who are so insecure in their positions and beliefs that they respond to satire like it’s threatening.
  - isleyaardvark 4y ago
    Both satire and free speech in general can be dangerous. edit: I don’t understand why people are downvoting a simple statement of undeniable fact. Do I need to mention that doesn’t mean I am in favor of government intervention?
    - refurb 4y ago
      Exactly. No different than "picking quarrels and provoking trouble".
      - revolvingocelot 4y ago
        If anyone is interested in what that means, it appears to be China's version of "resisting arrest" and "assaulting an officer": a spurious, ill-defined charge with which the inconvenient could be bludgeoned. What the parent comment means by referencing this phenomenon, which already has an Occidental analogue, is still unclear to me.
        refurb 4y ago
        It's basically China's version of "free speech is dangerous". Whenever someone starts saying things the CCP doesn't like, they are "fomenting dissent". What people don't get is if you want to start censoring "dangerous speech" then you'd better have a perfect definition of what dangerous speech is. But there isn't one. So what ends up happening is you ban speech with good reason, set a precedent, then your political opponent takes power and starts banning speech as well.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I'll provide the counterpoint and say satire and speech are not dangerous. Nobody is directly hurt by it. It can be involved in a causal chain that leads to harm, but so can everything. If you contend that speech is dangerous because it can lead to harm, then language itself is dangerous because it can lead to speech. For that matter air is dangerous, because it facilitates language.

Yeah, there's some trolls but the Babylon Bee folk seem to be genuine, as far as I can tell, even though I find their content unpleasant, unfunny and dangerous even as satire: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/06/babylon-bee-satire-from-right.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/06/babylon-bee-sati...

junofan 4y ago
Dangerous? Come on.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  Yes. https://babylonbee.com/news/are-you-a-fascist-know-the-signs https://babylonbee.com/news/are-you-a-fascist-know-the-signs Is this satire or are they just genuinely angry about stuff that isn't really happening? Hard to tell. > You have more than one kid and you love being a parent: Dedication to the family is a distraction from service to the state. Just abort, you fascist – don't you want to be liberated?
  - theflyingelvis 4y ago
    That’s actually pretty humorous
  - iinnPP 4y ago
    It's very clearly satire and not dangerous. I have a very serious question for anyone pushing a limit on free speech: where does it end? My answer is that the Right will dictate the limits to speech, not the Left. Stop pushing for this. It will end poorly for everyone. The people who are already suffering will be the hardest hit.
  - DoctorOW 4y ago
    Babylon Bee is probably among the least dangerous of modern conservatism. Babylon Bee writers themselves have been known to admit they have a really hard time writing anything decent. Their market is conservatives, not fans of humor. As such, any This is because the secret to humor is surprise. Look at the quote you used. Did anyone not see the headline and not put together it'd be the usual "The real fascism" talking points?
  - refurb 4y ago
    I mean that's clearly satire by the very fact they are calling their readers fascists. Or do you think people read that and say "oh yeah, I guess I am a fascist!"
  - swivelmaster 4y ago
    This is dangerously lazy comedy writing, I’ll give it that. When it does take a turn though, it appears that they really do believe that Biden supporters are literally murdering Trump voters in the streets. Or they want their readers to believe it. The thing is, when you’re writing comedy and you break the fourth wall to say “okay here’s what I actually think,” as this article does, you’re no longer in parody territory if most of what you say is exactly what a common person believes. Mixing in satire that sounds exactly like fascist propaganda is pretty transparently manipulative.
    - someguy5344523 4y ago
      > it appears that they really do believe that Biden supporters are literally murdering Trump voters in the streets They are: https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/22/us/north-dakota-teenager-vehicular-homicide https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/22/us/north-dakota-teenager-vehi...
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        > Four of Brandt's neighbors agreed that his mental health contributed to the incident, and said they don't believe the incident was motivated by politics. Quote from Fox News. Meanwhile Trump has been telling people he was a far left activist who intentionally mowed someone down in cold blood and the mainstream media refuses to cover the story (possibly because Trump made up most of the details). There's some weird stuff about the the crazy guy saying the kid was in an extremist Republican outfit, but as far as I can tell that's just the ravings of a drunk with mental health issues who just run someone over while DUI.
      - swivelmaster 4y ago
        “They” really doing a lot of work for you there… Do you honestly believe this or are you just trying as hard as humanly possible to make a pedantic point for the sake of argument?
  - _fat_santa 4y ago
    That's funny though I will say, the Bee makes some pretty in the weeds jokes, way more so than the Onion. If you keep up with politics and shit happening on twitter it's hilarious, if you're not then it's hard to understand that joke. EDIT: That joke in question is about the new Italian PM. What they are satirizing is in her acceptance speech she talked about "family, god and country" and the left immediately called her fascist for it.
    - tstrimple 4y ago
      Or maybe calling her a fascist is the result of her rhetoric against LGBT folks and immigrants while leading a political party (The Brothers of Italy) with fascist roots and her comments praising fascists.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      > What they are satirizing is in her acceptance speech she talked about "family, god and country" and the left immediately called her fascist for it See, I don't think that's a thing that happened. And if you satirise something that never happened, but your audience all think happened, because someone on Twitter told them it happened then you're in a weird area. And I can see how that could happen in other online cliques too. I think if it happened in a clique I was in and cared about, I'd call it out, not celebrate it. But that assumes you know it didn't happen, and that you care. So fundamentally it's not the satire that's the problem, it's groups of people believing stuff that isn't true.
    - hairofadog 4y ago
      That's not why they called her a fascist.
  - headsoup 4y ago
    The hard to tell part points to issues in society, not the satire.
  - TeeMassive 4y ago
    Taking things seriously and taking socially reprehensible and authoritarian positions? Sounds like confession through projection.
  - bena 4y ago
    Yeah. That isn't satire or a joke. It's wearing the cloth, but it's really a thinly veiled screed against the "libruls". It's positing that people are calling you fascist for saying Merry Christmas or voting for Trump. No one is doing that. Not a single goddamn person is doing that. Not a fucking soul is calling you fascist for celebrating the 4th of July. But if you support or have supported an insurrection on your nation's capitol to install the loser of an election to the highest office in the land. You may have fascist tendencies. If you wish to install a theocracy and enforce the rules of your religion onto others. You may have fascist tendencies. Then they throw in the mustache, goose-stepping bit. Which while both were done by actual fascists and are clear nods to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party, they aren't necessary or sufficient conditions. Then they go on with the Biden criticisms in which they distort or ignore things to make claims. Like "You use federal law enforcement to intimidate and attack political opponents". Just completely ignoring the fact that it's neither intimidation nor an attack to investigate people who broke the law. Regardless if they're a "political opponent" or not. Which is kind of hilarious as one of Trump's campaign promises/slogans was literally a promise to use law enforcement to attack a political opponent. As with most cases, the "joke" with The Babylon Bee is "fuck liberals".
    - ccn0p 4y ago
      well. as stated many times, you are upset and don't find this funny, but many people do find this funny. So is that comedy? Also, jokes that are about literal things are, well, usually more boring. Have people called me a fascist for saying Merry Christmas? Nope. But... have I seen legitimate news outlets using the word fascist and Christian in the same article? Yep. Did it indirectly draw a connection between the two? Sure seems like it to me. Hence, the joke.
      - bena 4y ago
        Why do you think I'm upset? That's a weird thing to accuse people of right off the bat. Some people also find cruelty funny. That wouldn't make cruelty funny. Yes, when talking about people who are Christian nationalists trying to install a theocracy, you may have the words "fascist" and "Christian" in the same article. But it's not in the same ballpark, or even the same sport, as saying you're being called a fascist for saying "Merry Christmas". If anything, it's motte and bailey disguised as a joke. They're trying to get people to see anyone associating anything even Christian adjacent to fascism as unreasonable people. But. You can be Christian and not be a fascist. You can go do Christian things, worship Christian gods, attend Christian churches, have Christian holidays. No one is going to say anything about it. The minute you try to force me to accept your Christian things, worship your gods, attend your Churches, and celebrate your holidays over all others, is the minute we start having problems. The minute we begin saying that you are a fascist in addition to being a Christian. Because no one is saying Christianity is fascism. But that's what that "joke" does. It's basically staking the claim that people complaining about Christian fascists are saying that all Christians are fascists. Or at the very least, saying that's a leap you can make. And it's not.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    What's the danger exactly? Not outlandish conjecture like "it emboldens fascists", but something actually quantifiable.
nyokodo 4y ago
> I find their content …dangerous even as satire This is precisely why we need strong protections for satirists from those who are so insecure in their positions and beliefs that they respond to satire like it’s threatening.
- isleyaardvark 4y ago
  Both satire and free speech in general can be dangerous. edit: I don’t understand why people are downvoting a simple statement of undeniable fact. Do I need to mention that doesn’t mean I am in favor of government intervention?
  - refurb 4y ago
    Exactly. No different than "picking quarrels and provoking trouble".
    - revolvingocelot 4y ago
      If anyone is interested in what that means, it appears to be China's version of "resisting arrest" and "assaulting an officer": a spurious, ill-defined charge with which the inconvenient could be bludgeoned. What the parent comment means by referencing this phenomenon, which already has an Occidental analogue, is still unclear to me.
      - refurb 4y ago
        It's basically China's version of "free speech is dangerous". Whenever someone starts saying things the CCP doesn't like, they are "fomenting dissent". What people don't get is if you want to start censoring "dangerous speech" then you'd better have a perfect definition of what dangerous speech is. But there isn't one. So what ends up happening is you ban speech with good reason, set a precedent, then your political opponent takes power and starts banning speech as well.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I'll provide the counterpoint and say satire and speech are not dangerous. Nobody is directly hurt by it. It can be involved in a causal chain that leads to harm, but so can everything. If you contend that speech is dangerous because it can lead to harm, then language itself is dangerous because it can lead to speech. For that matter air is dangerous, because it facilitates language.