5 ms·

Did the current cable used by the iPhone have this problem too? If not, isn't this changing it to the worse? edit to clarify: ... because while Apple might sti

by moring 4y ago

Did the current cable used by the iPhone have this problem too? If not, isn't this changing it to the worse? edit to clarify: ... because while Apple might still include a working cable, but if you grab one of the 10 cables out of your cable box, you don't know if it will actually work.

mensetmanusman 4y ago
https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/22/how-to-choose-a-usb-c-cable/amp/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/22/how-to-choose-a-usb-c-cable/a... It would be funny if this ruling strengthened Apple’s position because no one knows which off-brand cable will destroy their device by not limiting current draw. Without strong regulations on the usb cables themselves, it almost seems like putting the cart before the horse.
- izacus 4y ago
  What in the world are you talking about? Cables aren't the ones limiting current draw, they're cables. And the millions upon millions of USB-C devices in the world right now have no such issues with USB-C charging so where are you pulling these silly ideas from? You think the rockstar engineers of Apple aren't capable of designing a charging circuit with reliability of a 80$ Chinese manufactured Android phone?
  - altairprime 4y ago
    > Cables aren't the ones limiting current draw Incorrect. All USB-PD cables, whether their connectors are USB-A, -B, and/or USB-C, are responsible for honestly declaring their charging power limit to the charger and to the device, and in the USB-PD specifications are specifically responsible for limiting current draw to the rated capacity of the cable. Per USB PD spec: > Sources Shall detect the type of Attached cable and limit the Capabilities they offer based on the current carrying capability of the cable determined by the Cable capabilities determined using the Discover Identity Command (see Section 6.4.4.2) sent using SOP’ Communication (see Section 2.4) to the Cable Plug. > The Cable VDO returned as part of the Discover Identity Command details the maximum current and voltage values that Shall be negotiated for a given cable as part of an Explicit Contract. Cheap, lying, uncertified USB cables that declare their ability to support higher charging rates — for example, 100W which is 5A at 20V in USB — have been known to short out and destroy chargers and devices in the process of doing so. This was discussed in a couple hundred comments across multiple posts when a Google engineer had to pressure Amazon through product reviews to enforce USB-IF certification on all USB-C cables several years ago: 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11387212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11387212
    - izacus 4y ago
      The cables are declaring their capability, but they're not LIMITING anything. That's on the charger and chargee side. >Cheap, lying, uncertified USB cables that declare their ability to support higher charging rates — for example, 100W which is 5A at 20V in USB — have been known to short out and destroy chargers and devices in the process of doing so. Yes, HN loves to discuss and gripe about it over and over again (quoting the same kind of unconfirmed posts that are out of date by years)... it just fails to prove that this is still any kind of widespread issue worse than any other cable connector issue.
      - altairprime 4y ago
        Narrow roads aren’t limiting driver speed, and yet they’re used specifically by traffic planners to limit driver speed — with full knowledge that some drivers will disregard all limits. Compliant USB-PD devices honor those cable limits. Non-compliant devices do not, but ignoring them does not negate their definition as limits.
- staticman2 4y ago
  Apple already supports usb c and dropped lightning on IPADs but you are pretending for some reason that Apple's position is USB C is unsafe?
  - mensetmanusman 4y ago
    No, I’m saying they are mandating apple add a port where the environment of cables that can be plugged in to said port is a minefield of confusion :)
dijit 4y ago
Apple's USB-C cable (called: "USB-C Charge Cable") supports 97w charging and USB 2.0 data transfer speeds. Apple only has one other USB-C <-> USB-C cable and that's the "Thunderbolt 3 Cable" which supports everything in USB 3.1 Gen 2
- webmobdev 4y ago
  The Apple USB-C charge cable ( https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MM093ZM/A/usb-c-charge-cable-1m https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MM093ZM/A/usb-c-charge... ) is supposed to be used with a 20W power adapter for iPad. The Thunderbolt USB-C cable is the one that supports up to 100W ( https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MQ4H2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb%E2%80%91c-cable-08-m https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MQ4H2ZM/A/thunderbolt-... ).
  - dijit 4y ago
    The 2m one is “designed” to be used with MacBooks. The 1m also supports 97W charging. I have the 2m (shipped with my MacBook Pro) and the 1m (shipped with my iPad Air) and I can confirm they charge my MacBook the same.
    - moring 4y ago
      I don't get it. Isn't the point of the EU directive that the cables are interchangeable to reduce waste? Why do different cables behave differently then?
hbn 4y ago
No, Lightning was great because if you saw a lightning cable, you could plug it in and know exactly what it's going to do. USB-C has been an absolute fucking mess, half my cables don't charge half my devices with USB-C ports, and you have no idea from looking what a cable is supposed to do. Everything plugs into everything, but it's a completely different story if they'll actually interop how you want. I can't believe people are celebrating the government getting involved with the design process of the only tech company that actually holds themselves to a standard on design. And by forcing them to use a port where the spec is such a mess.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  > No, Lightning was great because if you saw a lightning cable, you could plug it in and know exactly what it's going to do I have dollar store Lightning cables that only have pins on one side and only charge and don't do data. Also Lightning cables suck because you know that literally none of them can even do even 1080p video.
  - hbn 4y ago
    All I need from a lightning cable is for it to charge things, but USB-C doesn't even guarantee that. I bought a shower speaker last year that charges through USB-C, and for some reason the charging cable that came with my Google Pixel won't charge it, but the cable for my Nintendo Switch Pro controller does. That's been my general experience.
    - scrumbledober 4y ago
      i have a vape battery that charges by USB-C but only the 6" long cable it came with. none of my other cables will charge it, and its cable won't charge anything else.
      - moring 4y ago
        Also repeated below, but it applies here too: I don't get it. Isn't the point of the EU directive that the cables are interchangeable to reduce waste? Why do different cables behave differently then?

by moring 4y ago

mensetmanusman 4y ago

https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/22/how-to-choose-a-usb-c-cable/amp/ https://9to5mac.com/2018/08/22/how-to-choose-a-usb-c-cable/a... It would be funny if this ruling strengthened Apple’s position because no one knows which off-brand cable will destroy their device by not limiting current draw. Without strong regulations on the usb cables themselves, it almost seems like putting the cart before the horse.

izacus 4y ago
What in the world are you talking about? Cables aren't the ones limiting current draw, they're cables. And the millions upon millions of USB-C devices in the world right now have no such issues with USB-C charging so where are you pulling these silly ideas from? You think the rockstar engineers of Apple aren't capable of designing a charging circuit with reliability of a 80$ Chinese manufactured Android phone?
- altairprime 4y ago
  > Cables aren't the ones limiting current draw Incorrect. All USB-PD cables, whether their connectors are USB-A, -B, and/or USB-C, are responsible for honestly declaring their charging power limit to the charger and to the device, and in the USB-PD specifications are specifically responsible for limiting current draw to the rated capacity of the cable. Per USB PD spec: > Sources Shall detect the type of Attached cable and limit the Capabilities they offer based on the current carrying capability of the cable determined by the Cable capabilities determined using the Discover Identity Command (see Section 6.4.4.2) sent using SOP’ Communication (see Section 2.4) to the Cable Plug. > The Cable VDO returned as part of the Discover Identity Command details the maximum current and voltage values that Shall be negotiated for a given cable as part of an Explicit Contract. Cheap, lying, uncertified USB cables that declare their ability to support higher charging rates — for example, 100W which is 5A at 20V in USB — have been known to short out and destroy chargers and devices in the process of doing so. This was discussed in a couple hundred comments across multiple posts when a Google engineer had to pressure Amazon through product reviews to enforce USB-IF certification on all USB-C cables several years ago: 2015: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11387212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11387212
  - izacus 4y ago
    The cables are declaring their capability, but they're not LIMITING anything. That's on the charger and chargee side. >Cheap, lying, uncertified USB cables that declare their ability to support higher charging rates — for example, 100W which is 5A at 20V in USB — have been known to short out and destroy chargers and devices in the process of doing so. Yes, HN loves to discuss and gripe about it over and over again (quoting the same kind of unconfirmed posts that are out of date by years)... it just fails to prove that this is still any kind of widespread issue worse than any other cable connector issue.
    - altairprime 4y ago
      Narrow roads aren’t limiting driver speed, and yet they’re used specifically by traffic planners to limit driver speed — with full knowledge that some drivers will disregard all limits. Compliant USB-PD devices honor those cable limits. Non-compliant devices do not, but ignoring them does not negate their definition as limits.
staticman2 4y ago
Apple already supports usb c and dropped lightning on IPADs but you are pretending for some reason that Apple's position is USB C is unsafe?
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  No, I’m saying they are mandating apple add a port where the environment of cables that can be plugged in to said port is a minefield of confusion :)

dijit 4y ago

Apple's USB-C cable (called: "USB-C Charge Cable") supports 97w charging and USB 2.0 data transfer speeds. Apple only has one other USB-C <-> USB-C cable and that's the "Thunderbolt 3 Cable" which supports everything in USB 3.1 Gen 2

webmobdev 4y ago
The Apple USB-C charge cable ( https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MM093ZM/A/usb-c-charge-cable-1m https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MM093ZM/A/usb-c-charge... ) is supposed to be used with a 20W power adapter for iPad. The Thunderbolt USB-C cable is the one that supports up to 100W ( https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MQ4H2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb%E2%80%91c-cable-08-m https://www.apple.com/in/shop/product/MQ4H2ZM/A/thunderbolt-... ).
- dijit 4y ago
  The 2m one is “designed” to be used with MacBooks. The 1m also supports 97W charging. I have the 2m (shipped with my MacBook Pro) and the 1m (shipped with my iPad Air) and I can confirm they charge my MacBook the same.
  - moring 4y ago
    I don't get it. Isn't the point of the EU directive that the cables are interchangeable to reduce waste? Why do different cables behave differently then?

hbn 4y ago

No, Lightning was great because if you saw a lightning cable, you could plug it in and know exactly what it's going to do. USB-C has been an absolute fucking mess, half my cables don't charge half my devices with USB-C ports, and you have no idea from looking what a cable is supposed to do. Everything plugs into everything, but it's a completely different story if they'll actually interop how you want. I can't believe people are celebrating the government getting involved with the design process of the only tech company that actually holds themselves to a standard on design. And by forcing them to use a port where the spec is such a mess.

kalleboo 4y ago
> No, Lightning was great because if you saw a lightning cable, you could plug it in and know exactly what it's going to do I have dollar store Lightning cables that only have pins on one side and only charge and don't do data. Also Lightning cables suck because you know that literally none of them can even do even 1080p video.
- hbn 4y ago
  All I need from a lightning cable is for it to charge things, but USB-C doesn't even guarantee that. I bought a shower speaker last year that charges through USB-C, and for some reason the charging cable that came with my Google Pixel won't charge it, but the cable for my Nintendo Switch Pro controller does. That's been my general experience.
  - scrumbledober 4y ago
    i have a vape battery that charges by USB-C but only the 6" long cable it came with. none of my other cables will charge it, and its cable won't charge anything else.
    - moring 4y ago
      Also repeated below, but it applies here too: I don't get it. Isn't the point of the EU directive that the cables are interchangeable to reduce waste? Why do different cables behave differently then?