5 ms·

Hard to believe USB-PD upses aren't a common products. There's no reason anymore that a power bank should ever even have an off mode unless it's so cheap there

Hard to believe USB-PD upses aren't a common products. There's no reason anymore that a power bank should ever even have an off mode unless it's so cheap there's no passthrough, which shouldn't be a thing either because it's annoying and probably saves 50 cents. It's microamps with a good eco mode switcher. Inline USB ultracapacitor banks seem like a reasonable product too though. Hopefully USB will give us standards for power banks someday so you can get certified ones with a defined form factor and behavior.

Dalewyn 4y ago
>USB will give us standards for power banks USB Energy Provisioning Aggregate Network 4.3 Revision 11 Gen3x4 48gbps SuperCharge-C.
- dividedbyzero 4y ago
  Sorry, can't do better than 5W with that pricey Revision 12 Gen4x4 cable of yours.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    Electricity is measured in gbps as ordained[1] by the USB-IF. We must be universal. [1]: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/USB-performance-logos.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/USB-p...
    - dividedbyzero 4y ago
      Yes, but between Revision 11 and 12, all manufacturers on the consortium unanimously voted to up all voltages by 0.4V to increase incompatibility. Still the same gbps though.
      - RHSeeger 4y ago
        There's something sort of horrifying in the fact that I can't tell if the posts in this thread are real ... or fake in pretending to be a bureaucratic, ridiculous joke.
      - therein 4y ago
        Traumatizing.
- justinjlynn 4y ago
  Nah, it'll be USB-P PB (LiIon Annex 3) UP 2+++ over USB-C (constant cycle) USB-P 2+++-compatible (certified) connectors.
hoseja 4y ago
For some reason I still cannot fathom, the 50-cent saving is a point of great pride to electrical engineers. They repeat some phrases about million-unit manufacturing runs and I just seethe with anger that we can't have nice things.
- walterbell 4y ago
  Good case study for Harvard Business School. When a design engineer wants to cut a feature to save a few pennies, they are teamed with a marketing pair-analyst to assess the TAM and margins, considered holistically with other feature subsets.
- xani_ 4y ago
  It's not EEs, it's beancounters, EE's are just paid to please them. Just like developers really
- kube-system 4y ago
  You can have nicer things, you just have to pay for it. But because of economies of scale, you don’t just pay the difference in BOM cost, you pay that difference plus the difference in fixed costs divided by a much smaller unit run. USB UPSes exist, and they’re really not that niche. Amazon has one for $50. That’s mass-market pricing as far as electronics are concerned.
  - m463 4y ago
    As far as I can tell, there are a few no-name DC-only ups systems, but it would be really nice to have a USB-only DC-only ups that did things like USB-C with PD.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      APC has a DC UPS but iirc it's 12V only. Mainly intended for routers etc.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  No, they are required to do that by management.
jacknews 4y ago
Exactly, even 5000mah in your standard USB-PD 60w adapter would be a huge boon, especially for laptops where the internal battery has begun to fail and replacing the battery means replacing half the laptop, app..cough..le
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >replacing the battery means replacing half the laptop And that's assuming you can even find a decent replacement battery.
- dylan604 4y ago
  I just did a battery replacement on a 2017 MBP. While there were a lot of screws needing to be removed and lots of lifting/prying to get to cables, half the laptop did not need to be replaced. Now, if you said the keyboard...
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    The keyboard and the whole topcase if you do it the official Apple way. I can see how someone would call that half the laptop.
- nicolaslem 4y ago
  > replacing the battery means replacing half the laptop, app..cough..le These kind of comments are surprisingly common on HN and annoy me slightly. Yes, most phones and laptops do not have user replaceable batteries anymore. It's a pity. That does not mean a dead battery is a justification to throw away fine equipment. Any phone repair shop or computer shop can replace batteries. They usually have all the equipment and spare parts, even more so for popular Apple devices. It usually takes half an hour and costs way less than replacing the whole device. I always recommend that to friends and family because most of them are not even aware this is possible. They usually thank me later saying how painless and affordable it was to give a second life to their devices.
  - jacknews 4y ago
sorenjan 4y ago
Anker has a power bank with integrated charger[0], or charger with built in power bank. Don't think it's made to be used as a UPS, but maybe it can be. > Inline USB ultracapacitor banks seem like a reasonable product too though. I actually saw just that in a GreatScott Youtube video about Aliexpress gadgets just the other day[1]. Not sold as a UPS, but rather a power filter or buffer. [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085CFD3Z9/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085CFD3Z9/ [1] https://youtu.be/fUdlfc1nJcY?t=117 https://youtu.be/fUdlfc1nJcY?t=117
- reaperducer 4y ago
  The ChugPlug saved my bacon more than once when stuck in the desert at night a hundred miles from power around 2005: https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/mac/entry/lenmar-chugplug https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/mac/entry/lenmar-chugplug Weighed more than my MacBook, but indispensable. Too bad they don't make them anymore.
  - wlesieutre 4y ago
    Laptops can run off of any USB-C power bank now, so it's no surprise there's no market for something like this. Cool product though! It's on the line voltage side like any other UPS, so not as efficient as you could be with a solution that didn't have to convert AC to DC then back to AC then to DC again in the brick. But with Apple's proprietary charging connector soldered to the device end of the brick, what else can you do about it?
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      My MacBook Air will happily draw 5w at 5V from a USB-A power bank from years ago through the laptop’s USB-C connector. In short, it will take whatever it can get and boost. Kinda inefficient to run 2x boosts, but it does the job. Will buy you time during use and slowly charge while closed.
xani_ 4y ago
> Hard to believe USB-PD upses aren't a common products. Insanely easy to believe. The role of UPS is to prevent data loss when power fails. If something is powered by USB-C it almost always already have its own battery preventing from that. The only devices that are not are stuff like say, raspberry Pi Also, there literally are devices like that, just aimed more at stuff like camping, so much bigger battery, usually an inverter on board and solar input. > Hopefully USB will give us standards for power banks someday so you can get certified ones with a defined form factor and behavior. If it will be like USB-PD then it will be insanely overcomplicated and nobody will be able to get it right.
- moolcool 4y ago
  > Insanely easy to believe. The role of UPS is to prevent data loss when power fails. If something is powered by USB-C it almost always already have its own battery preventing from that. That's a moot point though, IMO. Like if you're travelling, wouldn't it be nice if your charger and your battery bank were the same device? Just because it doesn't have the same specific utility as a UPS, doesn't mean that it's not useful in other ways.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    > wouldn't it be nice if your charger and your battery bank were the same device? Like this? https://www.anker.com/products/a1621 https://www.anker.com/products/a1621 There’s a lot of these devices. “Wall plug power bank” worked as good keywords for me on Amazon. These could still be different in operation than a UPS though
    - dude3 4y ago
      I tried this it does provide power like a ups but it cuts out for a moment and restarts the device.
      - eternityforest 4y ago
        ZMI Plugornot did the same thing
unqueued 4y ago
I was amazed when I learned that most powerbanks do not function that way. Some of them will switch modes if you unplug them, but there is still an interruption. I was able to find a device that actually functions as a USB UPS: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZS3WYZY/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZS3WYZY/ It is so nice to be able to unplug my Pi to move it, and have it stay on. I also use them for my usb powered wifi security cameras. So far they have not failed me.

Dalewyn 4y ago

>USB will give us standards for power banks USB Energy Provisioning Aggregate Network 4.3 Revision 11 Gen3x4 48gbps SuperCharge-C.

dividedbyzero 4y ago
Sorry, can't do better than 5W with that pricey Revision 12 Gen4x4 cable of yours.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Electricity is measured in gbps as ordained[1] by the USB-IF. We must be universal. [1]: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/USB-performance-logos.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/USB-p...
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    Yes, but between Revision 11 and 12, all manufacturers on the consortium unanimously voted to up all voltages by 0.4V to increase incompatibility. Still the same gbps though.
    - RHSeeger 4y ago
      There's something sort of horrifying in the fact that I can't tell if the posts in this thread are real ... or fake in pretending to be a bureaucratic, ridiculous joke.
    - therein 4y ago
      Traumatizing.
justinjlynn 4y ago
Nah, it'll be USB-P PB (LiIon Annex 3) UP 2+++ over USB-C (constant cycle) USB-P 2+++-compatible (certified) connectors.

hoseja 4y ago

For some reason I still cannot fathom, the 50-cent saving is a point of great pride to electrical engineers. They repeat some phrases about million-unit manufacturing runs and I just seethe with anger that we can't have nice things.

walterbell 4y ago
Good case study for Harvard Business School. When a design engineer wants to cut a feature to save a few pennies, they are teamed with a marketing pair-analyst to assess the TAM and margins, considered holistically with other feature subsets.
xani_ 4y ago
It's not EEs, it's beancounters, EE's are just paid to please them. Just like developers really
kube-system 4y ago
You can have nicer things, you just have to pay for it. But because of economies of scale, you don’t just pay the difference in BOM cost, you pay that difference plus the difference in fixed costs divided by a much smaller unit run. USB UPSes exist, and they’re really not that niche. Amazon has one for $50. That’s mass-market pricing as far as electronics are concerned.
- m463 4y ago
  As far as I can tell, there are a few no-name DC-only ups systems, but it would be really nice to have a USB-only DC-only ups that did things like USB-C with PD.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    APC has a DC UPS but iirc it's 12V only. Mainly intended for routers etc.
goodpoint 4y ago
No, they are required to do that by management.

jacknews 4y ago

Exactly, even 5000mah in your standard USB-PD 60w adapter would be a huge boon, especially for laptops where the internal battery has begun to fail and replacing the battery means replacing half the laptop, app..cough..le

Dalewyn 4y ago
>replacing the battery means replacing half the laptop And that's assuming you can even find a decent replacement battery.
dylan604 4y ago
I just did a battery replacement on a 2017 MBP. While there were a lot of screws needing to be removed and lots of lifting/prying to get to cables, half the laptop did not need to be replaced. Now, if you said the keyboard...
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  The keyboard and the whole topcase if you do it the official Apple way. I can see how someone would call that half the laptop.
nicolaslem 4y ago
> replacing the battery means replacing half the laptop, app..cough..le These kind of comments are surprisingly common on HN and annoy me slightly. Yes, most phones and laptops do not have user replaceable batteries anymore. It's a pity. That does not mean a dead battery is a justification to throw away fine equipment. Any phone repair shop or computer shop can replace batteries. They usually have all the equipment and spare parts, even more so for popular Apple devices. It usually takes half an hour and costs way less than replacing the whole device. I always recommend that to friends and family because most of them are not even aware this is possible. They usually thank me later saying how painless and affordable it was to give a second life to their devices.
- jacknews 4y ago

sorenjan 4y ago

Anker has a power bank with integrated charger[0], or charger with built in power bank. Don't think it's made to be used as a UPS, but maybe it can be. > Inline USB ultracapacitor banks seem like a reasonable product too though. I actually saw just that in a GreatScott Youtube video about Aliexpress gadgets just the other day[1]. Not sold as a UPS, but rather a power filter or buffer. [0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085CFD3Z9/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085CFD3Z9/ [1] https://youtu.be/fUdlfc1nJcY?t=117 https://youtu.be/fUdlfc1nJcY?t=117

reaperducer 4y ago
The ChugPlug saved my bacon more than once when stuck in the desert at night a hundred miles from power around 2005: https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/mac/entry/lenmar-chugplug https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/mac/entry/lenmar-chugplug Weighed more than my MacBook, but indispensable. Too bad they don't make them anymore.
- wlesieutre 4y ago
  Laptops can run off of any USB-C power bank now, so it's no surprise there's no market for something like this. Cool product though! It's on the line voltage side like any other UPS, so not as efficient as you could be with a solution that didn't have to convert AC to DC then back to AC then to DC again in the brick. But with Apple's proprietary charging connector soldered to the device end of the brick, what else can you do about it?
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    My MacBook Air will happily draw 5w at 5V from a USB-A power bank from years ago through the laptop’s USB-C connector. In short, it will take whatever it can get and boost. Kinda inefficient to run 2x boosts, but it does the job. Will buy you time during use and slowly charge while closed.

xani_ 4y ago

> Hard to believe USB-PD upses aren't a common products. Insanely easy to believe. The role of UPS is to prevent data loss when power fails. If something is powered by USB-C it almost always already have its own battery preventing from that. The only devices that are not are stuff like say, raspberry Pi Also, there literally are devices like that, just aimed more at stuff like camping, so much bigger battery, usually an inverter on board and solar input. > Hopefully USB will give us standards for power banks someday so you can get certified ones with a defined form factor and behavior. If it will be like USB-PD then it will be insanely overcomplicated and nobody will be able to get it right.

moolcool 4y ago
> Insanely easy to believe. The role of UPS is to prevent data loss when power fails. If something is powered by USB-C it almost always already have its own battery preventing from that. That's a moot point though, IMO. Like if you're travelling, wouldn't it be nice if your charger and your battery bank were the same device? Just because it doesn't have the same specific utility as a UPS, doesn't mean that it's not useful in other ways.
- kube-system 4y ago
  > wouldn't it be nice if your charger and your battery bank were the same device? Like this? https://www.anker.com/products/a1621 https://www.anker.com/products/a1621 There’s a lot of these devices. “Wall plug power bank” worked as good keywords for me on Amazon. These could still be different in operation than a UPS though
  - dude3 4y ago
    I tried this it does provide power like a ups but it cuts out for a moment and restarts the device.
    - eternityforest 4y ago
      ZMI Plugornot did the same thing

unqueued 4y ago

I was amazed when I learned that most powerbanks do not function that way. Some of them will switch modes if you unplug them, but there is still an interruption. I was able to find a device that actually functions as a USB UPS: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZS3WYZY/ https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZS3WYZY/ It is so nice to be able to unplug my Pi to move it, and have it stay on. I also use them for my usb powered wifi security cameras. So far they have not failed me.