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It has not. And "a lack of accountability" is a band-aid on the real problem: bad gatekeeping. People getting into science, not for the search for truth, but i

It has not. And "a lack of accountability" is a band-aid on the real problem: bad gatekeeping. People getting into science, not for the search for truth, but in search of respectability, green card, money, or whatever else. Trying to whip them into real scientists through transparency and accountability is like trying to achieve security in your home by flinging the gates and doors wide open but slapping cameras and motion detectors everywhere. Either they win, or you get fatigued.

AussieWog93 4y ago
>People getting into science, not for the search for truth I got into science in order to discover truth and develop new things. Left after less than a year, got a job as a SWE then eventually started my own business selling used video games of all things. Have never met a group of people less interested in the truth, or a system that goes to such extreme effort to actively inhibit discovery, than what I experienced in academia. A friend who works for a private non-profit "researching" cures for cancer has reached the same conclusion there too. Getting money from rich old people/the government takes precedence over science and it's just sad.
- club_tropical 4y ago
  Mirrors my experience. The good ones leave and the vultures remain.
  - Foobar8568 4y ago
    Hi to any charities.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  > Getting money from rich old people that's sort of shabby treatment of a group of people who step forward as willing to give money. You're singling them out because virtually nobody else is stepping forward. But you want the money (that's called greed, btw) so I guess you'd rather have money disbursed to you... how? the proper functioning of an economy is essentially defined as allocating resources in a way that leads to the best outcomes for the most people. Look around the world and describe a better system than the one the US has had. I agree it's headed in the wrong direction, but it's not at all clear how to fix it.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    >that's sort of shabby treatment of a group of people who step forward as willing to give money. You're singling them out because virtually nobody else is stepping forward. But you want the money (that's called greed, btw) so I guess you'd rather have money disbursed to you... how? They aren't giving money for truth, they are giving money because they want to hear their opinions repeated by someone with a PhD. Be it climate change denial, sex denial or whatever the flavor of the moment is you will find someone willing to give you money to say whatever it is they already believe.
- enviclash 4y ago
  "Have never met a group of people less interested in the truth, or a system that goes to such extreme effort to actively inhibit discovery, than what I experienced in academia." Totally true!
marcosdumay 4y ago
> People getting into science, not for the search for truth, but in search of respectability, green card, money, or whatever else. I doubt that. It's much easier to get all of those things elsewhere (ok, maybe not the green card, but the fact that this is not a US-only problem also discards this). If it is an issue of systemic corruption, people are getting corrupted after they walk in, not before.
- club_tropical 4y ago
  I disagree on every point.
- enviclash 4y ago
  Not even a mentally sick person would get into science for a green card. I see prejudices behind your opinion.
kajaktum 4y ago
I think there are very few people who are truly scientists in that they spend their lives trying to solve multiple problems. I think most people have 1 or 2 grand ideas and they execute them. I've seen "scientist"s that are truly intellectually bankrupt, he just needs to do certain things throughout the year to pass some checks and get paid.
autoexec 4y ago
> the real problem: bad gatekeeping. People getting into science, not for the search for truth, but in search of respectability, green card, money, or whatever else. What possible gate could keep out people who get into science for the wrong reasons? As long as there are people willing to pay off a scientist, there will always be scientists willing to pocket the money in exchange for lies. As long as scientists are well respected, people who want to be respected will give consideration to becoming a scientist. All we can can do is open the gates and doors, keep an eye on everyone who comes in, and kick out the ones who cause problems. In fact, it's better not to be aggressive about gatekeeping when it comes to science because otherwise you risk kicking out someone who could have discovered something important. Transparency and verification make for good science anyway so it's not as if anyone would be saving money on 'cameras and motion detectors' by locking the gates and doors and only letting their friends in. Accountability is the key here and the lack of it is not just limited to scientists. Not long ago in the US a doctor who believes that tumors and cysts are caused by the sperm of demons found her way into international headlines. She is also on record saying that medications contain the DNA of aliens. She still got to keep her medical license and she has a medical practice. There is almost no accountability at all.

AussieWog93 4y ago

>People getting into science, not for the search for truth I got into science in order to discover truth and develop new things. Left after less than a year, got a job as a SWE then eventually started my own business selling used video games of all things. Have never met a group of people less interested in the truth, or a system that goes to such extreme effort to actively inhibit discovery, than what I experienced in academia. A friend who works for a private non-profit "researching" cures for cancer has reached the same conclusion there too. Getting money from rich old people/the government takes precedence over science and it's just sad.

club_tropical 4y ago
Mirrors my experience. The good ones leave and the vultures remain.
- Foobar8568 4y ago
  Hi to any charities.
fsckboy 4y ago
> Getting money from rich old people that's sort of shabby treatment of a group of people who step forward as willing to give money. You're singling them out because virtually nobody else is stepping forward. But you want the money (that's called greed, btw) so I guess you'd rather have money disbursed to you... how? the proper functioning of an economy is essentially defined as allocating resources in a way that leads to the best outcomes for the most people. Look around the world and describe a better system than the one the US has had. I agree it's headed in the wrong direction, but it's not at all clear how to fix it.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  >that's sort of shabby treatment of a group of people who step forward as willing to give money. You're singling them out because virtually nobody else is stepping forward. But you want the money (that's called greed, btw) so I guess you'd rather have money disbursed to you... how? They aren't giving money for truth, they are giving money because they want to hear their opinions repeated by someone with a PhD. Be it climate change denial, sex denial or whatever the flavor of the moment is you will find someone willing to give you money to say whatever it is they already believe.
enviclash 4y ago
"Have never met a group of people less interested in the truth, or a system that goes to such extreme effort to actively inhibit discovery, than what I experienced in academia." Totally true!

marcosdumay 4y ago

> People getting into science, not for the search for truth, but in search of respectability, green card, money, or whatever else. I doubt that. It's much easier to get all of those things elsewhere (ok, maybe not the green card, but the fact that this is not a US-only problem also discards this). If it is an issue of systemic corruption, people are getting corrupted after they walk in, not before.

club_tropical 4y ago
I disagree on every point.
enviclash 4y ago
Not even a mentally sick person would get into science for a green card. I see prejudices behind your opinion.

kajaktum 4y ago

I think there are very few people who are truly scientists in that they spend their lives trying to solve multiple problems. I think most people have 1 or 2 grand ideas and they execute them. I've seen "scientist"s that are truly intellectually bankrupt, he just needs to do certain things throughout the year to pass some checks and get paid.

autoexec 4y ago

> the real problem: bad gatekeeping. People getting into science, not for the search for truth, but in search of respectability, green card, money, or whatever else. What possible gate could keep out people who get into science for the wrong reasons? As long as there are people willing to pay off a scientist, there will always be scientists willing to pocket the money in exchange for lies. As long as scientists are well respected, people who want to be respected will give consideration to becoming a scientist. All we can can do is open the gates and doors, keep an eye on everyone who comes in, and kick out the ones who cause problems. In fact, it's better not to be aggressive about gatekeeping when it comes to science because otherwise you risk kicking out someone who could have discovered something important. Transparency and verification make for good science anyway so it's not as if anyone would be saving money on 'cameras and motion detectors' by locking the gates and doors and only letting their friends in. Accountability is the key here and the lack of it is not just limited to scientists. Not long ago in the US a doctor who believes that tumors and cysts are caused by the sperm of demons found her way into international headlines. She is also on record saying that medications contain the DNA of aliens. She still got to keep her medical license and she has a medical practice. There is almost no accountability at all.