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> their complier often runs code inside if(false) blocks (in certain positions) Do you have an example? Sounds like a catastrophic edge case.

by an_ko 4y ago

dwohnitmok 4y ago
If parent is referring to what I think she/he is referring to, then it's something like this: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6768 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6768. Keep in mind this is only to do with comptime not runtime. So not ideal, but not catastrophic in the sense of "my program evaluated the wrong conditional branch at runtime!"
- Aeolun 4y ago
  It still kind of generates a bunch of undefined behavior if parts of your code disappear from the build where they shouldn’t.
puffoflogic 4y ago
Here are some examples of "obvious" miscompilations like this: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/10349 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/10349 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/9810 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/9810 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/8952 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/8952 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/4491 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/4491 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/5230 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/5230 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6444 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6444 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/7097 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/7097 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/3882 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/3882
- AndyKelley 4y ago
  It's nice when you post actual links so we can discuss them. * 10349: already fixed in master branch; issue remains open until we add behavior test coverage for it. * 9810: same * 8952: same * 4491: same * 3882: same * 5230: same * 6444: duplicate of 5230 * 7097: duplicate of 5230 I went through 100% of your links and 100% of them are solved already. The only reason they are open is because we are being responsible and not closing them until we have verified that each and every case has behavior test coverage.
  - puffoflogic 4y ago
    This is why I don't post links to begin with, because it allows you to shift the narrative away from the way zig contributors treat these issues to "NO THESE ARE ALL FIXED!1!!". If zig was being developed using a process where correctness mattered one jot, then the underlying issue wouldn't have kept happening and you wouldn't have kept papering over a fundamentally wrong model. While I did not compare zig to V, now that you brought it up in a related comment, you're right, they do seem to follow very similar development models: "That's not an issue, and even if it is an issue, we've already fixed it, and even if we haven't fixed it, it doesn't matter, and even if it matters, it's not our job, and even if it is, you can't prove it." Wow. Zig is a toy language with a broken implementation. The comptime story is incoherent; it is two entirely unalike languages being written with superficially similar (but not identical) syntax, and lots of bugs in the gaps. At least V is honest about what it is and isn't. ETA: I provided links, do you have any evidence whatsoever that any of these issues have been fixed? Because I went through these links and 0% of them have commits attached. 0% of them have comments from a developer indicating they've been fixed (other than comments posted after I shared links). 0% of them have comments from a developer saying that they're being held open in order for testcases to be added. Your claims are just more confabulation from a confirmed liar.
    - pushedx 4y ago
      Do you realize that you’re conversing with the creator of zig, who has poured the last six years of his life into the project? All software with any amount of complexity has bugs, even if there’s a published spec ratified by comittee over the course of 20 years, or whatever your unattainable standard of quality is. Zig is free software and a community in the best sense of both. Show some respect.
      - puffoflogic 4y ago
        Bugs are fine. Arrogant devs who claim that all bugs are fixed and their software is correct and anyone who says otherwise is lying are not fine. And I do obviously know who I was interacting with; Kelley's arrogance and lies are legendary (second only to the V devs, but he appears to be consciously competing with them). It drove me away from the language when my own filed bug on this issue was met with a similar response.

> their complier often runs code inside if(false) blocks (in certain positions) Do you have an example? Sounds like a catastrophic edge case.

by an_ko 4y ago

> their complier often runs code inside if(false) blocks (in certain positions) Do you have an example? Sounds like a catastrophic edge case.

dwohnitmok 4y ago

If parent is referring to what I think she/he is referring to, then it's something like this: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6768 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6768. Keep in mind this is only to do with comptime not runtime. So not ideal, but not catastrophic in the sense of "my program evaluated the wrong conditional branch at runtime!"

Aeolun 4y ago
It still kind of generates a bunch of undefined behavior if parts of your code disappear from the build where they shouldn’t.

puffoflogic 4y ago

Here are some examples of "obvious" miscompilations like this: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/10349 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/10349 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/9810 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/9810 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/8952 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/8952 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/4491 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/4491 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/5230 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/5230 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6444 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/6444 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/7097 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/7097 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/3882 https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/3882

AndyKelley 4y ago
It's nice when you post actual links so we can discuss them. * 10349: already fixed in master branch; issue remains open until we add behavior test coverage for it. * 9810: same * 8952: same * 4491: same * 3882: same * 5230: same * 6444: duplicate of 5230 * 7097: duplicate of 5230 I went through 100% of your links and 100% of them are solved already. The only reason they are open is because we are being responsible and not closing them until we have verified that each and every case has behavior test coverage.
- puffoflogic 4y ago
  This is why I don't post links to begin with, because it allows you to shift the narrative away from the way zig contributors treat these issues to "NO THESE ARE ALL FIXED!1!!". If zig was being developed using a process where correctness mattered one jot, then the underlying issue wouldn't have kept happening and you wouldn't have kept papering over a fundamentally wrong model. While I did not compare zig to V, now that you brought it up in a related comment, you're right, they do seem to follow very similar development models: "That's not an issue, and even if it is an issue, we've already fixed it, and even if we haven't fixed it, it doesn't matter, and even if it matters, it's not our job, and even if it is, you can't prove it." Wow. Zig is a toy language with a broken implementation. The comptime story is incoherent; it is two entirely unalike languages being written with superficially similar (but not identical) syntax, and lots of bugs in the gaps. At least V is honest about what it is and isn't. ETA: I provided links, do you have any evidence whatsoever that any of these issues have been fixed? Because I went through these links and 0% of them have commits attached. 0% of them have comments from a developer indicating they've been fixed (other than comments posted after I shared links). 0% of them have comments from a developer saying that they're being held open in order for testcases to be added. Your claims are just more confabulation from a confirmed liar.
  - pushedx 4y ago
    Do you realize that you’re conversing with the creator of zig, who has poured the last six years of his life into the project? All software with any amount of complexity has bugs, even if there’s a published spec ratified by comittee over the course of 20 years, or whatever your unattainable standard of quality is. Zig is free software and a community in the best sense of both. Show some respect.
    - puffoflogic 4y ago
      Bugs are fine. Arrogant devs who claim that all bugs are fixed and their software is correct and anyone who says otherwise is lying are not fine. And I do obviously know who I was interacting with; Kelley's arrogance and lies are legendary (second only to the V devs, but he appears to be consciously competing with them). It drove me away from the language when my own filed bug on this issue was met with a similar response.