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To be clear, this is entirely about advertising within Apple's App Store (that's what Apple Search Ads is). It has nothing to do with ads on the internet or in

by simonh 4y ago

To be clear, this is entirely about advertising within Apple's App Store (that's what Apple Search Ads is). It has nothing to do with ads on the internet or in Safari, or even within third party apps.

amelius 4y ago
pavlov 4y ago
And Google ads used to be only unobtrusive text inlined with search results until it wasn’t. If there’s growth in a segment of business that’s moving the needle at a multi-trillion market cap corporation like Apple, there are executives and product managers all over the place hoping to get on board.
- kuratkull 4y ago
  Google search ads used to be in a separate box to the right of the search results.
- simonh 4y ago
  Maybe, I suppose we'll see, but people have been saying this ever since the Google/Apple bust up over user data in Google Maps back in 2009. If we condemned everyone for things they might do one day we'd all be in jail for life.
- CobrastanJorji 4y ago
  I agree, I think you mean that they were NOT inline. They were out of the line, in an entirely separate column. With a different background color. With the words "sponsored links" added to their box.
jdgoesmarching 4y ago
I feel like the real outrage here should be for developers who already pay a fee for the privilege of being Apple developers, give up 30% of their revenue for the privilege of being inconsistently judged by app review, and now need to fork over extra money just to have their exact app name appear when searched. It’s insulting to the dev community who drove the success of the app store and arguably iOS in general. No amount of “we love our devs” PR can reconcile this.
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  > It’s insulting to the dev community who drove the success of the app store and arguably iOS in general. No amount of “we love our devs” PR can reconcile this. Apple built this market to control it completely, you could see it coming from miles away. It seems like the big move nowadays is build your market (i.e. "platform") and you get to be judge, jury and executioner. How did you see something like this playing out? I just don't understand how people still aren't cynical enough to see this kind of thing coming.
  - datadata 4y ago
    People might be able to see it coming, but could still be enticed by the riches to be made for a while by playing the game even while knowing how it ends.
    - munificent 4y ago
      Or simply be making the rational economic choice given a lack of better alternatives.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >you get to be judge, jury and executioner. This has been the case with every single instance of software repositories (aka app stores). Remember the whole ffmpeg and libav schism that was fueled in part by repo maintainers imposing their dogmatic will? Or more recently Debian and whether to include non-free code in its installers (aka local repository)? I can't quite grasp why this doesn't appear immediately obvious to anyone. The only truly free ecosystem is something like Win32, where developers are free to write whatever they want, publishers are free to sell whatever they want where- and however they want, and the operating system is dependent on that free ecosystem for continued relevance.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Software repositories can distribute whatever software they want, the examples you've given are of arbitrary decisions made by repo owners. Furthermore, Win32 isn't an 'ecosystem', it's just a set of APIs you can target to pantomime software behavior. It doesn't relate to software distribution whatsoever, just as the Darwin/XNU kernel doesn't handle packaging. In fact, you've done a very good job of highlighting the problem with the iPhone. MacOS' software distribution works because it offers a distribution-agnostic API for native apps, same as Windows. iOS/iPadOS don't expose those interfaces to the user, which means the only way to 'install' an app is with Apple's good graces. Compared to Debian, where you can still install non-free packages regardless of how it exists in the repo, Apple's status quo is considerably more restrictive (and abusive).
drawingthesun 4y ago
Incorrect I just checked that the stocks app on Mac OS does indeed have unrelated adverts.
- simonh 4y ago
  Thanks, I missed the brief mention of those, but it's still not an ATT issue and they do apply the same standards to their own apps.
rchaud 4y ago
Apple has ads everywhere, including Apple News and Stocks, and I imagine iMovie, Pages and Keynote soon enough.
- musictubes 4y ago
  News and Stocks are essentially the same system. Stocks is just financial news tied to the things in your watchlist.
zmmmmm 4y ago
did you miss the whole section of the article about ads in the stocks and other apps on MacOS?
faller_slive 4y ago
> Apple has hinted that more of its own apps can soon get ads. It was reported that the company eyes bring ads to Maps, Books and Podcasts apps.

by simonh 4y ago

amelius 4y ago

pavlov 4y ago

And Google ads used to be only unobtrusive text inlined with search results until it wasn’t. If there’s growth in a segment of business that’s moving the needle at a multi-trillion market cap corporation like Apple, there are executives and product managers all over the place hoping to get on board.

kuratkull 4y ago
Google search ads used to be in a separate box to the right of the search results.
simonh 4y ago
Maybe, I suppose we'll see, but people have been saying this ever since the Google/Apple bust up over user data in Google Maps back in 2009. If we condemned everyone for things they might do one day we'd all be in jail for life.
CobrastanJorji 4y ago
I agree, I think you mean that they were NOT inline. They were out of the line, in an entirely separate column. With a different background color. With the words "sponsored links" added to their box.

jdgoesmarching 4y ago

I feel like the real outrage here should be for developers who already pay a fee for the privilege of being Apple developers, give up 30% of their revenue for the privilege of being inconsistently judged by app review, and now need to fork over extra money just to have their exact app name appear when searched. It’s insulting to the dev community who drove the success of the app store and arguably iOS in general. No amount of “we love our devs” PR can reconcile this.

thr0wawayf00 4y ago
> It’s insulting to the dev community who drove the success of the app store and arguably iOS in general. No amount of “we love our devs” PR can reconcile this. Apple built this market to control it completely, you could see it coming from miles away. It seems like the big move nowadays is build your market (i.e. "platform") and you get to be judge, jury and executioner. How did you see something like this playing out? I just don't understand how people still aren't cynical enough to see this kind of thing coming.
- datadata 4y ago
  People might be able to see it coming, but could still be enticed by the riches to be made for a while by playing the game even while knowing how it ends.
  - munificent 4y ago
    Or simply be making the rational economic choice given a lack of better alternatives.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  >you get to be judge, jury and executioner. This has been the case with every single instance of software repositories (aka app stores). Remember the whole ffmpeg and libav schism that was fueled in part by repo maintainers imposing their dogmatic will? Or more recently Debian and whether to include non-free code in its installers (aka local repository)? I can't quite grasp why this doesn't appear immediately obvious to anyone. The only truly free ecosystem is something like Win32, where developers are free to write whatever they want, publishers are free to sell whatever they want where- and however they want, and the operating system is dependent on that free ecosystem for continued relevance.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Software repositories can distribute whatever software they want, the examples you've given are of arbitrary decisions made by repo owners. Furthermore, Win32 isn't an 'ecosystem', it's just a set of APIs you can target to pantomime software behavior. It doesn't relate to software distribution whatsoever, just as the Darwin/XNU kernel doesn't handle packaging. In fact, you've done a very good job of highlighting the problem with the iPhone. MacOS' software distribution works because it offers a distribution-agnostic API for native apps, same as Windows. iOS/iPadOS don't expose those interfaces to the user, which means the only way to 'install' an app is with Apple's good graces. Compared to Debian, where you can still install non-free packages regardless of how it exists in the repo, Apple's status quo is considerably more restrictive (and abusive).

drawingthesun 4y ago

Incorrect I just checked that the stocks app on Mac OS does indeed have unrelated adverts.

simonh 4y ago
Thanks, I missed the brief mention of those, but it's still not an ATT issue and they do apply the same standards to their own apps.

rchaud 4y ago

Apple has ads everywhere, including Apple News and Stocks, and I imagine iMovie, Pages and Keynote soon enough.

musictubes 4y ago
News and Stocks are essentially the same system. Stocks is just financial news tied to the things in your watchlist.

zmmmmm 4y ago

did you miss the whole section of the article about ads in the stocks and other apps on MacOS?

faller_slive 4y ago

> Apple has hinted that more of its own apps can soon get ads. It was reported that the company eyes bring ads to Maps, Books and Podcasts apps.