4 ms·

Jeff is always a raspberry foundation supporter. I do feel a bit more pushback is needed. The other companies he mentions like Apple and Nvidia have shown consi

by _abox 4y ago

Jeff is always a raspberry foundation supporter. I do feel a bit more pushback is needed. The other companies he mentions like Apple and Nvidia have shown considerable improvement in recent months. The raspberry is only ever harder to get. I have a feeling Broadcom is the main problem here, they probably prioritize other customers. Which is surprising in some ways because a lot of raspberry pi foundation members are ex-broadcom or still even work there. However I guess the other companies are willing to offer more whereas if the pi became more expensive there would be a lot of uproar (and rightly so because it defeats the purpose)

wmf 4y ago
I wonder what Broadcom's endgame is. They appear to be selling the SoC very cheap to the foundation. I thought maybe this is to encourage other customers to buy that same SoC at a higher price but it appears they don't sell it. If there's no path for Broadcom to make reasonable margins then of course they have no incentive to increase production.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  The pi foundation was started by a group of Broadcom engineers. If not for that connection, Broadcom would likely have never given them the time of day - they are notoriously bad to deal with if you are a small company. It's possible they see this as some sort of marketing, but I don't think they are using it to drive a sales funnel of low-volume customers.
  - nerfhammer 4y ago
    if broadcom were supplying at below cost as a marketing expenditure it would explain a bunch of things such as why raspberry pi doesn't allow bulk sales but would give them away with magazines
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      It doesn't, but the foundation does make a loss on the zero as far as I remember (remember reading somewhere..) which is why they never lifted the "one per order" restriction. It's very annoying because I give trainings sometimes and it would be nice to give each participant one.
  - joezydeco 4y ago
    The first Pi was based off a failed set-top streaming box SoC that Broadcom didn't know what to do with. The original goal (remember that?) was to make it a cheap educational Linux system. And it was a nice idea. The cheap sticker price got it noticed compared to the other more expensive (but better supported) ARM single-board computers. And here we are. I sure as heck don't know what Broadcom's endgame is here either, because like you say they don't even answer your call if you're <100K EAU. So unlike other EVKs that can be used to rip apart and spin into real projects, you're stuck with RPi as a standalone unit. The chip shortage is hurting everyone, but at least with other SoCs you can find them from multiple sources eventually. Or use a broker if you're desparate.
    - jrockway 4y ago
      Yup, Raspberry Pi kind of sucked the oxygen out of the Beaglebone ecosystem. Speedier and cheaper. The Beaglebone has a lot of features that hardcore embedded engineers want (real-time support, eMMC, tons of IO, good platform documentation), but the Raspberry Pi really appealed to the maker crowd. I guess the $25 price difference made a big difference? I never really understood it. I was a big Beaglebone Black supporter, but figured the winds were blowing towards the Raspberry Pi, so just started using that instead. Now I'm here with the need for several mini Linux boxes and instead I have nothing. Beaglebone Black feels outdated. Raspberry Pi is unobtainium. Unfortunate where the random walk leads.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        In a world where TI had been able to get a foothold with hobbyists on the beaglebone, the world might be very different. TI doesn't hate small-volume sales like Broadcom. The hobbyist market has weirdly strong network effects: we saw this with Arduino, too, which was a lot more expensive than its competitors! I assume there is a measure of influencer marketing here that old-guard tech companies didn't grasp. 10 years ago, the beagleboard was a game changer, though. They are still making beaglebones and beagleboards, both of which are cool, but they are last-generation computers with lots of useful embedded SoC features, while the Pi is a computer first.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    they are notoriously bad to deal with if you a large, small, medium, government or anything.... Which is why i soooo excited they bought VMWare.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      It's too bad they can't buy Microsoft and Apple.
- tpmx 4y ago
  This is a key question that needs more daylight/exposure. I guess Pico is their first hedge, perhaps there will be more. Relying on Raspberry Pi as a business means relying on the goodwill of Broadcom - which is a severely broken company.
ajsnigrutin 4y ago
It's probably a price issue... You need a laptop/expensive graphics card, you needed it back them when you started on a "waitlist" (official or your own), and after them becoming available, you buy one laptop/card, and you're done. With raspberrypis, everyone doing anything with them outside of purely first time hobbyists, will order 5, 10, 50, however much they can get, because the waiting is killing the business. When rpi zero w 2 came out, it was hard to get, but the moment I could get one, I bought 3 pieces, even though i needed only one at the moment, but I knew, if I needed more, I wouldn't be able to get them for months again.
mschuster91 4y ago
> The other companies he mentions like Apple and Nvidia have shown considerable improvement in recent months. Well, Nvidia and AMD GPUs have only shown improvement because the writing was on the wall that Ethereum was going PoS and the downturn in worldwide economies made the rest of the shitcoins unprofitable.

by _abox 4y ago

wmf 4y ago

I wonder what Broadcom's endgame is. They appear to be selling the SoC very cheap to the foundation. I thought maybe this is to encourage other customers to buy that same SoC at a higher price but it appears they don't sell it. If there's no path for Broadcom to make reasonable margins then of course they have no incentive to increase production.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
The pi foundation was started by a group of Broadcom engineers. If not for that connection, Broadcom would likely have never given them the time of day - they are notoriously bad to deal with if you are a small company. It's possible they see this as some sort of marketing, but I don't think they are using it to drive a sales funnel of low-volume customers.
- nerfhammer 4y ago
  if broadcom were supplying at below cost as a marketing expenditure it would explain a bunch of things such as why raspberry pi doesn't allow bulk sales but would give them away with magazines
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    It doesn't, but the foundation does make a loss on the zero as far as I remember (remember reading somewhere..) which is why they never lifted the "one per order" restriction. It's very annoying because I give trainings sometimes and it would be nice to give each participant one.
- joezydeco 4y ago
  The first Pi was based off a failed set-top streaming box SoC that Broadcom didn't know what to do with. The original goal (remember that?) was to make it a cheap educational Linux system. And it was a nice idea. The cheap sticker price got it noticed compared to the other more expensive (but better supported) ARM single-board computers. And here we are. I sure as heck don't know what Broadcom's endgame is here either, because like you say they don't even answer your call if you're <100K EAU. So unlike other EVKs that can be used to rip apart and spin into real projects, you're stuck with RPi as a standalone unit. The chip shortage is hurting everyone, but at least with other SoCs you can find them from multiple sources eventually. Or use a broker if you're desparate.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Yup, Raspberry Pi kind of sucked the oxygen out of the Beaglebone ecosystem. Speedier and cheaper. The Beaglebone has a lot of features that hardcore embedded engineers want (real-time support, eMMC, tons of IO, good platform documentation), but the Raspberry Pi really appealed to the maker crowd. I guess the $25 price difference made a big difference? I never really understood it. I was a big Beaglebone Black supporter, but figured the winds were blowing towards the Raspberry Pi, so just started using that instead. Now I'm here with the need for several mini Linux boxes and instead I have nothing. Beaglebone Black feels outdated. Raspberry Pi is unobtainium. Unfortunate where the random walk leads.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      In a world where TI had been able to get a foothold with hobbyists on the beaglebone, the world might be very different. TI doesn't hate small-volume sales like Broadcom. The hobbyist market has weirdly strong network effects: we saw this with Arduino, too, which was a lot more expensive than its competitors! I assume there is a measure of influencer marketing here that old-guard tech companies didn't grasp. 10 years ago, the beagleboard was a game changer, though. They are still making beaglebones and beagleboards, both of which are cool, but they are last-generation computers with lots of useful embedded SoC features, while the Pi is a computer first.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  they are notoriously bad to deal with if you a large, small, medium, government or anything.... Which is why i soooo excited they bought VMWare.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    It's too bad they can't buy Microsoft and Apple.
tpmx 4y ago
This is a key question that needs more daylight/exposure. I guess Pico is their first hedge, perhaps there will be more. Relying on Raspberry Pi as a business means relying on the goodwill of Broadcom - which is a severely broken company.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

It's probably a price issue... You need a laptop/expensive graphics card, you needed it back them when you started on a "waitlist" (official or your own), and after them becoming available, you buy one laptop/card, and you're done. With raspberrypis, everyone doing anything with them outside of purely first time hobbyists, will order 5, 10, 50, however much they can get, because the waiting is killing the business. When rpi zero w 2 came out, it was hard to get, but the moment I could get one, I bought 3 pieces, even though i needed only one at the moment, but I knew, if I needed more, I wouldn't be able to get them for months again.

mschuster91 4y ago

> The other companies he mentions like Apple and Nvidia have shown considerable improvement in recent months. Well, Nvidia and AMD GPUs have only shown improvement because the writing was on the wall that Ethereum was going PoS and the downturn in worldwide economies made the rest of the shitcoins unprofitable.