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To play devil's advocate...if you believe Apple really stands by their privacy values, why wouldn't they start an ads business? If they feel they can deliver ad

To play devil's advocate...if you believe Apple really stands by their privacy values, why wouldn't they start an ads business? If they feel they can deliver ads and protect customer data, they should start an ad business. They owe it to shareholders and to their customers. If they don't do it, someone else will, and they ultimately don't trust third parties with their customers' data (also being a massive corporation, they don't like other companies generating revenue off the backs of their customers). If you believe Apple is genuine about their commitment to privacy, this should be encouraging news. If you don't believe that, then this does appear to be questionable at best (boxing out third parties so they can profit off the data themselves)

xvector 4y ago
Anticompetitive to deny others the ability to run ads on your platform. Apple's gonna be hit big time with antitrust.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > Anticompetitive to deny others the ability to run ads on your platform. Yeah, if that were true it'd be pretty bad. (It's not true.)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- DrBenCarson 4y ago
  Yeah, that's not true. Apple doesn't stop anyone from running ads. They stop companies from collecting and aggregating data across multiple apps without explicit user consent.
  - m00x 4y ago
    Yet they do it themselves :) It's a smart business decision. Basically "If you want to have deep tracking on users using iPhones, you need to go through us".
  - xvector 4y ago
    Yes, but it's almost certainly not legal for Apple to aggregate across multiple apps while not allowing for other advertisers to do the same.
saiya-jin 4y ago
- jdmdmdmdmd 4y ago
  I don't think it's gymnastics. The last part about being "genuine" is a stretch, but the fundamental point they're making is reasonable or at least worth discussing. It's relevant to the discussions of gambling and the lottery, for example. I don't appreciate Apple and their lock-in (especially the "we're protecting you" marketing) but the case for "the lesser evil" of advertising is worth discussing. I actually want Apple to start pushing ads, not because of the reason given by GP but because it will almost definitely kill Apple. I think they know that and will go only as far as they know they can without giving up their brand which is ultimately their most valuable asset.
- DrBenCarson 4y ago
  How can a product be overpriced if more than 50% of the [US] market buys and uses that product? You might want to reconsider who's doing mental gymnastics lol source: https://9to5mac.com/2022/09/02/iphone-us-market-share/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/09/02/iphone-us-market-share/
  - novok 4y ago
    That is only a few markets, in one of the wealthiest countries of the world. In the rest of the world android is pretty much +%90 and iphones are luxury goods, like a designer handbag or a porsche. Apple is definitely the Porsche or Mercedes of computing.
    - pb7 4y ago
      Neither of which are overpriced, they just target a different segment of wealth with a different set of features and build quality.
    - DrBenCarson 4y ago
      Apple might be, but iOS is not. I can assure you 50% of America doesn’t have a Porsche or Mercedes lol iPhone is just that much better than its nearest competitors.
fullshark 4y ago
I actually don't care that much about the privacy stuff, you are insane if you don't think Apple tracks user metrics and device data for at the very least business intelligence. I care about the UX being worsened.
- DrBenCarson 4y ago
  Oh 100% they collect and track user metrics, but I do think they abide by the answer you give when any Apple device asks you if you want to send metrics to the mothership at setup. It's also a matter of how well the data is anonymized. Given they've gone through the trouble of adding private email proxy features, secure web proxy features, and lockdown mode, I don't think it's lip service, but that's just my opinion.
- pbronez 4y ago
  They use some pretty sophisticated tech to do this in a way that respects user privacy: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Overview.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Over...
- pronlover723 4y ago
  I hate ads but I live with a few now. I have privacy to some extent. I don't want to give up privacy for ads. As an example, there's no reason Apple couldn't hash the screen constantly to see what videos you're watching, what images you're looking at, who you're talking to (face recognition, text recognition). They own the OS, they can do all of that in the name of serving you ads. Some TVs apparently already do this. And if you don't think they can hash what's on your screen well they already shipped that tech. So I would most certainly not choose a phone that spies on me over one that has ads. I already have a phone that has ads. Sure I want less ads but not at the expense of less privacy. In fact arguably, the less privacy you have the more ads you'll get since they'll have more data to target you.
amelius 4y ago
> If they feel they can deliver ads and protect customer data, they should start an ad business. They owe it to shareholders and to their customers. Collecting data about people is already an infringement of privacy in itself. It doesn't matter here if you keep that data out of the hands of yet other people.
magic_hamster 4y ago
Profiling the user based on their seemingly private usage of the device is a breach of privacy. This is the big issue. It's not okay to be all for privacy when it's other corporations' tracking methods, but employ the same methods for yourself. What Apple basically did was say "tracking users for ads is great, and we realized we don't have to share this data with other ad companies, so good for us." Apple can collect device data for technical purposes, which is borderline, but more acceptable.
chillfox 4y ago
I care more about an ad free experience than the privacy angle. Not that I don't value privacy, I do value it highly, just not as highly as avoiding ads.

xvector 4y ago

Anticompetitive to deny others the ability to run ads on your platform. Apple's gonna be hit big time with antitrust.

CharlesW 4y ago
> Anticompetitive to deny others the ability to run ads on your platform. Yeah, if that were true it'd be pretty bad. (It's not true.)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
DrBenCarson 4y ago
Yeah, that's not true. Apple doesn't stop anyone from running ads. They stop companies from collecting and aggregating data across multiple apps without explicit user consent.
- m00x 4y ago
  Yet they do it themselves :) It's a smart business decision. Basically "If you want to have deep tracking on users using iPhones, you need to go through us".
- xvector 4y ago
  Yes, but it's almost certainly not legal for Apple to aggregate across multiple apps while not allowing for other advertisers to do the same.

saiya-jin 4y ago

jdmdmdmdmd 4y ago
I don't think it's gymnastics. The last part about being "genuine" is a stretch, but the fundamental point they're making is reasonable or at least worth discussing. It's relevant to the discussions of gambling and the lottery, for example. I don't appreciate Apple and their lock-in (especially the "we're protecting you" marketing) but the case for "the lesser evil" of advertising is worth discussing. I actually want Apple to start pushing ads, not because of the reason given by GP but because it will almost definitely kill Apple. I think they know that and will go only as far as they know they can without giving up their brand which is ultimately their most valuable asset.
DrBenCarson 4y ago
How can a product be overpriced if more than 50% of the [US] market buys and uses that product? You might want to reconsider who's doing mental gymnastics lol source: https://9to5mac.com/2022/09/02/iphone-us-market-share/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/09/02/iphone-us-market-share/
- novok 4y ago
  That is only a few markets, in one of the wealthiest countries of the world. In the rest of the world android is pretty much +%90 and iphones are luxury goods, like a designer handbag or a porsche. Apple is definitely the Porsche or Mercedes of computing.
  - pb7 4y ago
    Neither of which are overpriced, they just target a different segment of wealth with a different set of features and build quality.
  - DrBenCarson 4y ago
    Apple might be, but iOS is not. I can assure you 50% of America doesn’t have a Porsche or Mercedes lol iPhone is just that much better than its nearest competitors.

fullshark 4y ago

I actually don't care that much about the privacy stuff, you are insane if you don't think Apple tracks user metrics and device data for at the very least business intelligence. I care about the UX being worsened.

DrBenCarson 4y ago
Oh 100% they collect and track user metrics, but I do think they abide by the answer you give when any Apple device asks you if you want to send metrics to the mothership at setup. It's also a matter of how well the data is anonymized. Given they've gone through the trouble of adding private email proxy features, secure web proxy features, and lockdown mode, I don't think it's lip service, but that's just my opinion.
pbronez 4y ago
They use some pretty sophisticated tech to do this in a way that respects user privacy: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Overview.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Over...
pronlover723 4y ago
I hate ads but I live with a few now. I have privacy to some extent. I don't want to give up privacy for ads. As an example, there's no reason Apple couldn't hash the screen constantly to see what videos you're watching, what images you're looking at, who you're talking to (face recognition, text recognition). They own the OS, they can do all of that in the name of serving you ads. Some TVs apparently already do this. And if you don't think they can hash what's on your screen well they already shipped that tech. So I would most certainly not choose a phone that spies on me over one that has ads. I already have a phone that has ads. Sure I want less ads but not at the expense of less privacy. In fact arguably, the less privacy you have the more ads you'll get since they'll have more data to target you.

amelius 4y ago

> If they feel they can deliver ads and protect customer data, they should start an ad business. They owe it to shareholders and to their customers. Collecting data about people is already an infringement of privacy in itself. It doesn't matter here if you keep that data out of the hands of yet other people.

magic_hamster 4y ago

Profiling the user based on their seemingly private usage of the device is a breach of privacy. This is the big issue. It's not okay to be all for privacy when it's other corporations' tracking methods, but employ the same methods for yourself. What Apple basically did was say "tracking users for ads is great, and we realized we don't have to share this data with other ad companies, so good for us." Apple can collect device data for technical purposes, which is borderline, but more acceptable.

chillfox 4y ago

I care more about an ad free experience than the privacy angle. Not that I don't value privacy, I do value it highly, just not as highly as avoiding ads.