5 ms·

I've seen this coming for a while, and I'm honestly not sure what the next move to make is for those of us who have done as much as we can to escape the hoards

I've seen this coming for a while, and I'm honestly not sure what the next move to make is for those of us who have done as much as we can to escape the hoards of advertisers. I have no particular love for iOS, but I switched to an iPhone years ago to escape the google ecosystem. There isn't really a plausible third option at this point. Even if Linux phones had usable hardware, more of the world is moving toward relying on apps that only run on DRMed systems with signed software from the data collecting duopoly. I can't deposit a check or order a taxi with a rooted phone, and the trend is getting worse over time- not better. I suppose the one up-side to the situation is that there's not much point in even trying to spend the time figuring out how to root a device, or dealing with egregiously under-performing open smart phone hardware, and it might be possible to save some money going back to a dumb phone.

pkulak 4y ago
You can't deposit a check or order a cab with a dumb phone either. Might as well put Calyx on something and at least have Firefox and OpenStreetMap.
- rebeccaskinner 4y ago
  I've thought about going down that path, and I still might, but at the moment I'm very frustrated by the state of hardware and general support for a lot of the user and privacy respecting options to the point where it's hard to believe it'll actually be worth my time to try to get something like that set up.
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  I want to be able to (among other things) order cabs and deposit checks using my smartphone, though. (Well, maybe not that last one, seeing as checks don’t exist here in the Netherlands anymore.) Going back a decade in terms of functionality is hardly an answer.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    It definitely is an answer, since there haven't been any major advances in cellphones over the last 10 years, but it really depends on how much you actually hate advertising.
  - nehal3m 4y ago
    Ironic nickname then :)
- Grustaf 4y ago
  Why can't you call a cab with a dumb phone?
  - rezonant 4y ago
    Just today my friend was telling me a story of the end of a night out in downtown LA, ready to go home to the west side when he realized that he was out of high speed data (he's on a legacy Verizon plan) and he might not have sufficient data speed to order an Uber. Apparently Uber worked just fine (probably a network "management" deal), but he was quite worried he wouldn't be able to get home if he couldn't order an Uber. I did point out that it is in fact possible to order a cab using a telephone call.
    - aembleton 4y ago
      Yes, if you have a taxi company phone number handy.
      - Grustaf 4y ago
        I hope we haven't reached the point where the average person is unable to find the number for common services.
        pkulak 4y ago
        Does 411 still operate? Cus it's not like there are phone booths with phone books in them anymore.
saiya-jin 4y ago
I recommended recently to my wife to buy Apple mini 13 as her next phone, after both of us being forever on Android. What a disappointment, she likes actually 1 feature - photos, and the rest is subpar experience compared to her old galaxy S10 (almost 4 year old phone). But then she likes my android photos similarly, since I have 10x zoom which is great for kids always running around or for hiking. Its not even first weeks of her use of Apple, she has it few months. I can browse on my samsung S22 ultra random internet without being swarmed with ads and tracking (firefox and ublock origin, something Apple phones will clearly never have). And all the rest. It has fingerprint sensor for unlocking, instead of ridiculously shitty faceid which doesn't work with masks (she is a doctor so does wear them often). It often doesn't work even without masks, ie non-ideal light conditions like right now (evening and dimmer lights). Comparable S22 is much nicer phone to look at, to hold, to carry, to charge, and to work with. I regret recommending it to her at this point, I too was convinced by Apple's effective PR. But quality is just not there, the devices are worse, bigger in size with smaller screen, uglier, heavier, software is meh, raw CPU power is useless on its own when device is so limited. I don't believe a zilch of Apple's PR about privacy, as I didn't for the ads and various other PR talk, actions are the only thing that matter. And after reading this topic, its clear I will continue shopping in Android's non-chinese realm for a very long time. I don't consider my device secure from state actors, and neither is Apple, so we act accordingly. Thus, no added value in Apple devices, just plenty of marketing, similar to say Hermes or Louis Vuitton purses. Nobody believes those are worth 500$ or 5,000$ to manufacture, yet rich people buy them.
- hk__2 4y ago
  > I can browse on my samsung S22 ultra random internet without being swarmed with ads and tracking (firefox and ublock origin, something Apple phones will clearly never have). If you are ok with using Safari instead of Firefox, that’s something that has been possible since 2015 on iOS [1]. > instead of ridiculously shitty faceid which doesn't work with masks It does since iOS 15.4 (March 2022 [2]); I use it every day. > It often doesn't work even without masks, ie non-ideal light conditions like right now (evening and dimmer lights) Light has nothing to do with this because FaceID works with infrared: I’m able to unlock my iPhone in the dark with no issue at all. You’re probably holding it wrong [3]. > But quality is just not there, the devices are worse, bigger in size with smaller screen, […] heavier I fail to find an iPhone 13 that’s bigger than your Samsung S22 Ultra. The Pro Max is 0.2mm wider but 2.1mm less tall and 1.2mm thiner (163.3 x 77.9 x 8.9 mm [4] vs. 160.8 x 78.1 x 7.7 mm [5]). It does have a smaller screen-to-size ratio (87.4% vs. 90.2%) and is slightly heavier (240g vs. 228g -- not sure how noticeable this is). > the devices are worse, […], uglier, […], software is meh That part is highly subjective. I personally find the S22 Ultra very ugly but that’s an opinion, not a fact. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34173732 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34173732 [2]: https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/face-id-with-mask?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/face-id-with-mas... [3]: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/how-iphone-x-face-id-works/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/how-iphone-x-face-id-wo... [4]: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s22_ultra_5g-11251.php https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s22_ultra_5g-11251.p... [5]: https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_13_pro_max-11089.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_13_pro_max-11089.php
fsflover 4y ago
> Even if Linux phones had usable hardware, more of the world is moving toward relying on apps that only run on DRMed systems with signed software from the data collecting duopoly. This is not a technical but a political problem. People owning (GNU-)Linux-phones (or just caring about the future of mobile computing) should demand from the companies that they do not force everyone into monopolies.
- amelius 4y ago
  you mean demand from governments.
cwkoss 4y ago
We need to start a social movement to punish advertisers. Ads are pernicious and pervasive thought manipulation which systemically decrease the life satisfaction of nearly every person in society. It is a cancer. We should strive to make anyone who gets manipulated into changing their behavior based on an ad they saw feel ashamed and stupid for falling for their tricks, and angry at the advertisers for manipulating them.
- kibwen 4y ago
  Say it louder: ads are socially-acceptable, corporate-sponsored brainwashing.
- thr0wawayf00 4y ago
  > We should strive to make anyone who gets manipulated into changing their behavior based on an ad they saw feel ashamed and stupid for falling for their tricks, This sounds great, but: A) how do you know/can you prove that you've been manipulated? B) How do we know that we haven't all been manipulated? (After all, millions of people bought into this ecosystem to get away from ads, I think every person who's angry has a case that they've been manipulated) and C) where is this social movement gonna take place? Social media, the bastion of internet advertising? The answer is make tech less important in our lives. There's been a pattern going back decades that technology grows in scale and utility and eventually becomes corporatized to that point that it generates more income to work against its users. The answer is to live a lower tech life. Less time on phones and apps and more time in the real world.
  - kornhole 4y ago
    That is an option but not tenable to most people in our modern world. How do you become informed about our world and people we care about far away without computer tech?. The better solution is free software we control and better ways to fund developers and journalists.
- kajaktum 4y ago
  >We need to start a social movement to punish advertisers. Ads are pernicious and pervasive thought manipulation which systemically decrease the life satisfaction of nearly every person in society. It is a cancer. Will never happen until we can dispel the notion that human are free agents. People will never give up this believe about themselves. Meanwhile, it's proven to be effective by virtue of it being a trillion dollar industry or something. Same thing with gambling.
kornhole 4y ago
Linux laptops are lovely at this point. Linux phones are for the more adventurous and tolerant hackers, and I love them for working out the issues. Android without any Google is the best handset option for most people. Degoogling can be accomplished in many ways such as using the universal android debloater found on github, or installing an Android fork such as Graphene, Calyx, or Lineage. Nextcloud is the most comprehensive replacement to many of the services and synchronization such as contacts, calendar, photos, files, bookmarks, passwords, phone location, news/RSS, podcasts, music, tasks, and notes. It can also host E2E chats and video calls.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
puyoxyz 4y ago
> I can't deposit a check or order a taxi with a rooted phone On GrapheneOS[0] (privacy focused AOSP-based mobile OS) you can do that stuff easily while still owning your device/having root, etc (at least according to this video[1] I saw) [0]: https://grapheneos.org/ https://grapheneos.org/ [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIZmUINSvQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIZmUINSvQ4
- aembleton 4y ago
  You need a pixel phone for GrapheneOS which is why I haven't tried it yet.

pkulak 4y ago

You can't deposit a check or order a cab with a dumb phone either. Might as well put Calyx on something and at least have Firefox and OpenStreetMap.

rebeccaskinner 4y ago
I've thought about going down that path, and I still might, but at the moment I'm very frustrated by the state of hardware and general support for a lot of the user and privacy respecting options to the point where it's hard to believe it'll actually be worth my time to try to get something like that set up.
Tijdreiziger 4y ago
I want to be able to (among other things) order cabs and deposit checks using my smartphone, though. (Well, maybe not that last one, seeing as checks don’t exist here in the Netherlands anymore.) Going back a decade in terms of functionality is hardly an answer.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  It definitely is an answer, since there haven't been any major advances in cellphones over the last 10 years, but it really depends on how much you actually hate advertising.
- nehal3m 4y ago
  Ironic nickname then :)
Grustaf 4y ago
Why can't you call a cab with a dumb phone?
- rezonant 4y ago
  Just today my friend was telling me a story of the end of a night out in downtown LA, ready to go home to the west side when he realized that he was out of high speed data (he's on a legacy Verizon plan) and he might not have sufficient data speed to order an Uber. Apparently Uber worked just fine (probably a network "management" deal), but he was quite worried he wouldn't be able to get home if he couldn't order an Uber. I did point out that it is in fact possible to order a cab using a telephone call.
  - aembleton 4y ago
    Yes, if you have a taxi company phone number handy.
    - Grustaf 4y ago
      I hope we haven't reached the point where the average person is unable to find the number for common services.
      - pkulak 4y ago
        Does 411 still operate? Cus it's not like there are phone booths with phone books in them anymore.

saiya-jin 4y ago

I recommended recently to my wife to buy Apple mini 13 as her next phone, after both of us being forever on Android. What a disappointment, she likes actually 1 feature - photos, and the rest is subpar experience compared to her old galaxy S10 (almost 4 year old phone). But then she likes my android photos similarly, since I have 10x zoom which is great for kids always running around or for hiking. Its not even first weeks of her use of Apple, she has it few months. I can browse on my samsung S22 ultra random internet without being swarmed with ads and tracking (firefox and ublock origin, something Apple phones will clearly never have). And all the rest. It has fingerprint sensor for unlocking, instead of ridiculously shitty faceid which doesn't work with masks (she is a doctor so does wear them often). It often doesn't work even without masks, ie non-ideal light conditions like right now (evening and dimmer lights). Comparable S22 is much nicer phone to look at, to hold, to carry, to charge, and to work with. I regret recommending it to her at this point, I too was convinced by Apple's effective PR. But quality is just not there, the devices are worse, bigger in size with smaller screen, uglier, heavier, software is meh, raw CPU power is useless on its own when device is so limited. I don't believe a zilch of Apple's PR about privacy, as I didn't for the ads and various other PR talk, actions are the only thing that matter. And after reading this topic, its clear I will continue shopping in Android's non-chinese realm for a very long time. I don't consider my device secure from state actors, and neither is Apple, so we act accordingly. Thus, no added value in Apple devices, just plenty of marketing, similar to say Hermes or Louis Vuitton purses. Nobody believes those are worth 500$ or 5,000$ to manufacture, yet rich people buy them.

hk__2 4y ago
> I can browse on my samsung S22 ultra random internet without being swarmed with ads and tracking (firefox and ublock origin, something Apple phones will clearly never have). If you are ok with using Safari instead of Firefox, that’s something that has been possible since 2015 on iOS [1]. > instead of ridiculously shitty faceid which doesn't work with masks It does since iOS 15.4 (March 2022 [2]); I use it every day. > It often doesn't work even without masks, ie non-ideal light conditions like right now (evening and dimmer lights) Light has nothing to do with this because FaceID works with infrared: I’m able to unlock my iPhone in the dark with no issue at all. You’re probably holding it wrong [3]. > But quality is just not there, the devices are worse, bigger in size with smaller screen, […] heavier I fail to find an iPhone 13 that’s bigger than your Samsung S22 Ultra. The Pro Max is 0.2mm wider but 2.1mm less tall and 1.2mm thiner (163.3 x 77.9 x 8.9 mm [4] vs. 160.8 x 78.1 x 7.7 mm [5]). It does have a smaller screen-to-size ratio (87.4% vs. 90.2%) and is slightly heavier (240g vs. 228g -- not sure how noticeable this is). > the devices are worse, […], uglier, […], software is meh That part is highly subjective. I personally find the S22 Ultra very ugly but that’s an opinion, not a fact. [1]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34173732 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34173732 [2]: https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/face-id-with-mask?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/tech/face-id-with-mas... [3]: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/how-iphone-x-face-id-works/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/09/13/how-iphone-x-face-id-wo... [4]: https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s22_ultra_5g-11251.php https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s22_ultra_5g-11251.p... [5]: https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_13_pro_max-11089.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_13_pro_max-11089.php

fsflover 4y ago

> Even if Linux phones had usable hardware, more of the world is moving toward relying on apps that only run on DRMed systems with signed software from the data collecting duopoly. This is not a technical but a political problem. People owning (GNU-)Linux-phones (or just caring about the future of mobile computing) should demand from the companies that they do not force everyone into monopolies.

amelius 4y ago
you mean demand from governments.

cwkoss 4y ago

We need to start a social movement to punish advertisers. Ads are pernicious and pervasive thought manipulation which systemically decrease the life satisfaction of nearly every person in society. It is a cancer. We should strive to make anyone who gets manipulated into changing their behavior based on an ad they saw feel ashamed and stupid for falling for their tricks, and angry at the advertisers for manipulating them.

kibwen 4y ago
Say it louder: ads are socially-acceptable, corporate-sponsored brainwashing.
thr0wawayf00 4y ago
> We should strive to make anyone who gets manipulated into changing their behavior based on an ad they saw feel ashamed and stupid for falling for their tricks, This sounds great, but: A) how do you know/can you prove that you've been manipulated? B) How do we know that we haven't all been manipulated? (After all, millions of people bought into this ecosystem to get away from ads, I think every person who's angry has a case that they've been manipulated) and C) where is this social movement gonna take place? Social media, the bastion of internet advertising? The answer is make tech less important in our lives. There's been a pattern going back decades that technology grows in scale and utility and eventually becomes corporatized to that point that it generates more income to work against its users. The answer is to live a lower tech life. Less time on phones and apps and more time in the real world.
- kornhole 4y ago
  That is an option but not tenable to most people in our modern world. How do you become informed about our world and people we care about far away without computer tech?. The better solution is free software we control and better ways to fund developers and journalists.
kajaktum 4y ago
>We need to start a social movement to punish advertisers. Ads are pernicious and pervasive thought manipulation which systemically decrease the life satisfaction of nearly every person in society. It is a cancer. Will never happen until we can dispel the notion that human are free agents. People will never give up this believe about themselves. Meanwhile, it's proven to be effective by virtue of it being a trillion dollar industry or something. Same thing with gambling.

kornhole 4y ago

Linux laptops are lovely at this point. Linux phones are for the more adventurous and tolerant hackers, and I love them for working out the issues. Android without any Google is the best handset option for most people. Degoogling can be accomplished in many ways such as using the universal android debloater found on github, or installing an Android fork such as Graphene, Calyx, or Lineage. Nextcloud is the most comprehensive replacement to many of the services and synchronization such as contacts, calendar, photos, files, bookmarks, passwords, phone location, news/RSS, podcasts, music, tasks, and notes. It can also host E2E chats and video calls.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

puyoxyz 4y ago

> I can't deposit a check or order a taxi with a rooted phone On GrapheneOS[0] (privacy focused AOSP-based mobile OS) you can do that stuff easily while still owning your device/having root, etc (at least according to this video[1] I saw) [0]: https://grapheneos.org/ https://grapheneos.org/ [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIZmUINSvQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIZmUINSvQ4

aembleton 4y ago
You need a pixel phone for GrapheneOS which is why I haven't tried it yet.