5 ms·

Why is "equity" and race mentioned? It's completely irrelevant to the story.

yboris 4y ago
Literally the next sentence: "Unsurprisingly, renters tend to have lower incomes than those who own their own homes; they are also more likely to be Black or Latino." Given the history of the US, this seems a worthwhile thing to note.
- evv 4y ago
  The whole paragraph is self explanatory and makes sense in this article because it prohibits huge swaths of people from adopting EVs. Some people tend to freak out when race is mentioned, I suppose, so they can't even read a few more lines of context.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    I would think being low income is itself prohibitive to adopting electric.
    - toast0 4y ago
      If your needs fit its range, off lease Leafs were pretty low cost when I was last looking; you could get an older gas car for much less and not everyone can afford a $10,000 car. Electric $/mile operating cost is very often less than gas $/mile, especially if you have significant access to free charging. Of course, if you move, you might need to get a different car.
      - coredog64 4y ago
        Nissan cheaped out on the Leaf and didn’t include any battery cooling. A used Leaf that spent any time in a hot climate and was charged to get the published range is unlikely to have a battery at full capacity.
      - mellavora 4y ago
        > especially if you have significant access to free charging. and if you don't? Because your apartment building doesn't offer it, and low-wage jobs are less likely to include it as a perk.. and OMG, the US tied health insurance to jobs and what a clusterfuck that is, so severely limiting entrepreneurship, now we want to tie "ability to charge your car" to employment? Can't quit your job because you don't have a charger at home and public ones are rare/expensive??
      - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
        > Electric $/mile operating cost is very often less than gas $/mile, especially if you have significant access to free charging. If you can charge at home, then electric $/mile is usually significantly cheaper. For me, my electricity is 11 cents/kWh, which made driving about 1/4 the price per mile as the 32 mpg Subaru BRZ I drove before my Tesla, and with gas over $5/gallon now, it's more like 1/5th the price. But if you can't charge at home, it's very likely nearly as expensive as gas. Electrify America, ChargePoint, etc. are not cheap. I usually see them around 50 cents/kWh.
        toast0 4y ago
        Hmm, around me, most of the paid charging is close to home prices. Although there's a few that are crazy prices.
  - vehemenz 4y ago
    The context of the story is EVs, vehicles that are primarily purchased by the upper 20-25%. It's not clear how minorities are disproportionately affected or stand to benefit disproportionately by urban EV charging adoption if they generally cannot afford them in the first place.
- zamalek 4y ago
  > Unsurprisingly, renters tend to have lower incomes than those who own their own homes Not only that, but renters are often put in the situation where their rent is the same as a mortgage, but can't afford to save for a down payment. Renting is a cockroach motel.
  - coredog64 4y ago
    Two years ago I had to replace my roof and the cost was more than the sum of mortgage payments for a year. Not too long before that, the AC needed replacement and that was ~ 6 months of mortgage payments. I’m grateful that I can afford it, but I understand that the mortgage isn’t the entire cost of the house and that renting allows me to leverage someone else’s capital in an efficient manner.
    - xhkkffbf 4y ago
      It's worth remembering that mortgage payments rarely include utilities, but some rental leases do. Also, getting out of a rental is often as easy as just leaving. Some unscrupulous types forget to pay the last few months of rent before skipping out giving themselves an unofficial discount. When owners want to sell, they need to pay commissions, inspection costs, transfer taxes, title searches and a few more unexpected and hidden charges. The transaction can take months and that's when you find a buyer. Yes, many people like to focus on the extreme profits that some lucky people have found in the right neighborhoods, but housing prices do go down and they often go down by a staggering amount. When you're underwater on your mortgage, you're trapped. You might be able to afford the monthly payments but you can't sell because you don't have the spare cash to pay off the mortgage. The high down payments evolved as a safety mechanism for the banks first, but also for the home buyers because markets fluctuate.
      - kcplate 4y ago
        >When you're underwater on your mortgage, you're trapped. You might be able to afford the monthly payments but you can't sell because you don't have the spare cash to pay off the mortgage. You can short sell if the lender is willing. Caveat being they will gift you the difference which can count as income and is taxed. There was an Obama era program during the last housing bubble burst that provided tax relief as well as incentives to the lenders to allow the short sale. Not sure if it’s still active, but it helped a lot of folks avoid foreclosures.
- vehemenz 4y ago
  Looking at median incomes, most of the Black and Latino population can't afford EVs anyway, so the inclusion of equity here looks a bit disingenuous. It kind of undermines the entire premise of the article because people struggling to find housing are not going to frivolously spend twice as much on a car, even if the upfront price difference levels out for some buyers.

Literally the next sentence: "Unsurprisingly, renters tend to have lower incomes than those who own their own homes; they are also more likely to be Black or Latino." Given the history of the US, this seems a worthwhile thing to note.

evv 4y ago
The whole paragraph is self explanatory and makes sense in this article because it prohibits huge swaths of people from adopting EVs. Some people tend to freak out when race is mentioned, I suppose, so they can't even read a few more lines of context.
- giantg2 4y ago
  I would think being low income is itself prohibitive to adopting electric.
  - toast0 4y ago
    If your needs fit its range, off lease Leafs were pretty low cost when I was last looking; you could get an older gas car for much less and not everyone can afford a $10,000 car. Electric $/mile operating cost is very often less than gas $/mile, especially if you have significant access to free charging. Of course, if you move, you might need to get a different car.
    - coredog64 4y ago
      Nissan cheaped out on the Leaf and didn’t include any battery cooling. A used Leaf that spent any time in a hot climate and was charged to get the published range is unlikely to have a battery at full capacity.
    - mellavora 4y ago
      > especially if you have significant access to free charging. and if you don't? Because your apartment building doesn't offer it, and low-wage jobs are less likely to include it as a perk.. and OMG, the US tied health insurance to jobs and what a clusterfuck that is, so severely limiting entrepreneurship, now we want to tie "ability to charge your car" to employment? Can't quit your job because you don't have a charger at home and public ones are rare/expensive??
    - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
      > Electric $/mile operating cost is very often less than gas $/mile, especially if you have significant access to free charging. If you can charge at home, then electric $/mile is usually significantly cheaper. For me, my electricity is 11 cents/kWh, which made driving about 1/4 the price per mile as the 32 mpg Subaru BRZ I drove before my Tesla, and with gas over $5/gallon now, it's more like 1/5th the price. But if you can't charge at home, it's very likely nearly as expensive as gas. Electrify America, ChargePoint, etc. are not cheap. I usually see them around 50 cents/kWh.
      - toast0 4y ago
        Hmm, around me, most of the paid charging is close to home prices. Although there's a few that are crazy prices.
- vehemenz 4y ago
  The context of the story is EVs, vehicles that are primarily purchased by the upper 20-25%. It's not clear how minorities are disproportionately affected or stand to benefit disproportionately by urban EV charging adoption if they generally cannot afford them in the first place.
zamalek 4y ago
> Unsurprisingly, renters tend to have lower incomes than those who own their own homes Not only that, but renters are often put in the situation where their rent is the same as a mortgage, but can't afford to save for a down payment. Renting is a cockroach motel.
- coredog64 4y ago
  Two years ago I had to replace my roof and the cost was more than the sum of mortgage payments for a year. Not too long before that, the AC needed replacement and that was ~ 6 months of mortgage payments. I’m grateful that I can afford it, but I understand that the mortgage isn’t the entire cost of the house and that renting allows me to leverage someone else’s capital in an efficient manner.
  - xhkkffbf 4y ago
    It's worth remembering that mortgage payments rarely include utilities, but some rental leases do. Also, getting out of a rental is often as easy as just leaving. Some unscrupulous types forget to pay the last few months of rent before skipping out giving themselves an unofficial discount. When owners want to sell, they need to pay commissions, inspection costs, transfer taxes, title searches and a few more unexpected and hidden charges. The transaction can take months and that's when you find a buyer. Yes, many people like to focus on the extreme profits that some lucky people have found in the right neighborhoods, but housing prices do go down and they often go down by a staggering amount. When you're underwater on your mortgage, you're trapped. You might be able to afford the monthly payments but you can't sell because you don't have the spare cash to pay off the mortgage. The high down payments evolved as a safety mechanism for the banks first, but also for the home buyers because markets fluctuate.
    - kcplate 4y ago
      >When you're underwater on your mortgage, you're trapped. You might be able to afford the monthly payments but you can't sell because you don't have the spare cash to pay off the mortgage. You can short sell if the lender is willing. Caveat being they will gift you the difference which can count as income and is taxed. There was an Obama era program during the last housing bubble burst that provided tax relief as well as incentives to the lenders to allow the short sale. Not sure if it’s still active, but it helped a lot of folks avoid foreclosures.
vehemenz 4y ago
Looking at median incomes, most of the Black and Latino population can't afford EVs anyway, so the inclusion of equity here looks a bit disingenuous. It kind of undermines the entire premise of the article because people struggling to find housing are not going to frivolously spend twice as much on a car, even if the upfront price difference levels out for some buyers.