4 ms·

We've had the period of standards competition and CCS has won. Now is exactly the right time to standardize.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
CCS won in Europe because the EU mandated it. Tesla won in the US because they have majority of marketshare and built out a nationwide fast DC charging network on their own [1]. If they get federal funds to enable CCS, fine, otherwise keep the advantage to drive sales and let legacy automakers flail in the wind. There is no political appetite to mandate CCS in the US. That’s the cost of hesitating and a half assed approach to an EV go to market strategy (Tesla has sunk almost $1B into its global fast DC charging network, VW only did through Electrify America because it was a Diselgate settlement requirement). [1] https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Is this even true? Cumulative sales of plug-in cars in the U.S.A. looks to me like it still favors the SAE charger connector.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    https://electrek.co/2022/08/15/tesla-tsla-dominates-us-electric-car-market-share/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/15/tesla-tsla-dominates-us-elect... Edit: https://www.atlasevhub.com/materials/state-ev-registration-data/ https://www.atlasevhub.com/materials/state-ev-registration-d... https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1576605589605863430 https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/157660558960586343... PHEVs don’t count for these purposes imho, fast DC charging is wasted on their charge curve. They can make due at legacy J1772 connectors.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      Market share and cumulative fleet size are two completely different things.
  - labcomputer 4y ago
    I’m curious how you come to that conclusion without some serious cherry-picking. It is a mistake confuse number of available models with units sold. The Nissan Leaf had by far the greatest market share among non-Teslas in North America prior to the Model 3 launch. Moreover, most of the Leaf’s competition, either “compliance” EVs or PHEVs, were sold without any DCFC connector. After the Model 3 launch, Tesla has dominated market share in the US.
- matthewdgreen 4y ago
  >CCS won in Europe because the EU mandated it. Tesla won in the US because they have majority of marketshare and built out a nationwide fast DC charging network on their own [1]. Does it really matter? Tesla offers both standards on their superchargers in Europe, and I'm sure (in their newer car designs) the digital and electronic components are ready to support both standards. I agree it's annoying to have two different plugs, but at this point isn't it basically a cheap retrofit? (At least for new-model Teslas and superchargers... I do worry that older Teslas might get left behind.)
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    It only matters if you own a non Tesla BEV in the US and require fast DC charging for your transportation needs.
    - jjtheblunt 4y ago
      i DC fast charged via my J1772 extended thingy with the two extra prongs, countless times, over 7 years, in North America. Tesla Superchargers aren't the only DC Fast chargers in NA, for going on ten years. But they're more common, it seems.
    - matthewdgreen 4y ago
      Tesla locked the superchargers to Tesla vehicles as a business decision, not because of cables. According to news reports they plan to open the network later this year. That will require some minor charger upgrades, but I doubt they'll terribly difficult. In addition to gaining access to the Tesla network, CCS users can also look forward to the deployment of more non-Tesla CCS chargers since the market will soon demand it (given that every other car manufacturer appears to have converged on that standard, and they're likely to build a lot of cars in the long run.) The much gnarlier situation is for us legacy Tesla owners. We'll still have access to the supercharger network, but we'll be sharing it with non-Tesla vehicles. Meanwhile we won't be able to use any of the non-Tesla chargers that get built. It sucks to own a Betamax when everyone else is about to settle on VHS.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > If they get federal funds to enable CCS, fine, otherwise keep the advantage to drive sales There's no advantage to a proprietary charge port. Closed charging networks are dumb infrastructure. Tesla is slowly realizing that switching to CCS will lead to higher utilization and reduced costs: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/28/22596337/tesla-supercharger-elon-musk-open-network-charging-stations https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/28/22596337/tesla-supercharg... > Tesla has sunk almost $1B into its global fast DC charging network Then Tesla can spend some more to change the plugs over to CCS, just like they did in Europe.

CCS won in Europe because the EU mandated it. Tesla won in the US because they have majority of marketshare and built out a nationwide fast DC charging network on their own [1]. If they get federal funds to enable CCS, fine, otherwise keep the advantage to drive sales and let legacy automakers flail in the wind. There is no political appetite to mandate CCS in the US. That’s the cost of hesitating and a half assed approach to an EV go to market strategy (Tesla has sunk almost $1B into its global fast DC charging network, VW only did through Electrify America because it was a Diselgate settlement requirement). [1] https://supercharge.info/map https://supercharge.info/map

jeffbee 4y ago
Is this even true? Cumulative sales of plug-in cars in the U.S.A. looks to me like it still favors the SAE charger connector.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  https://electrek.co/2022/08/15/tesla-tsla-dominates-us-electric-car-market-share/ https://electrek.co/2022/08/15/tesla-tsla-dominates-us-elect... Edit: https://www.atlasevhub.com/materials/state-ev-registration-data/ https://www.atlasevhub.com/materials/state-ev-registration-d... https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1576605589605863430 https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/157660558960586343... PHEVs don’t count for these purposes imho, fast DC charging is wasted on their charge curve. They can make due at legacy J1772 connectors.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Market share and cumulative fleet size are two completely different things.
- labcomputer 4y ago
  I’m curious how you come to that conclusion without some serious cherry-picking. It is a mistake confuse number of available models with units sold. The Nissan Leaf had by far the greatest market share among non-Teslas in North America prior to the Model 3 launch. Moreover, most of the Leaf’s competition, either “compliance” EVs or PHEVs, were sold without any DCFC connector. After the Model 3 launch, Tesla has dominated market share in the US.
matthewdgreen 4y ago
>CCS won in Europe because the EU mandated it. Tesla won in the US because they have majority of marketshare and built out a nationwide fast DC charging network on their own [1]. Does it really matter? Tesla offers both standards on their superchargers in Europe, and I'm sure (in their newer car designs) the digital and electronic components are ready to support both standards. I agree it's annoying to have two different plugs, but at this point isn't it basically a cheap retrofit? (At least for new-model Teslas and superchargers... I do worry that older Teslas might get left behind.)
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  It only matters if you own a non Tesla BEV in the US and require fast DC charging for your transportation needs.
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    i DC fast charged via my J1772 extended thingy with the two extra prongs, countless times, over 7 years, in North America. Tesla Superchargers aren't the only DC Fast chargers in NA, for going on ten years. But they're more common, it seems.
  - matthewdgreen 4y ago
    Tesla locked the superchargers to Tesla vehicles as a business decision, not because of cables. According to news reports they plan to open the network later this year. That will require some minor charger upgrades, but I doubt they'll terribly difficult. In addition to gaining access to the Tesla network, CCS users can also look forward to the deployment of more non-Tesla CCS chargers since the market will soon demand it (given that every other car manufacturer appears to have converged on that standard, and they're likely to build a lot of cars in the long run.) The much gnarlier situation is for us legacy Tesla owners. We'll still have access to the supercharger network, but we'll be sharing it with non-Tesla vehicles. Meanwhile we won't be able to use any of the non-Tesla chargers that get built. It sucks to own a Betamax when everyone else is about to settle on VHS.
clouddrover 4y ago
> If they get federal funds to enable CCS, fine, otherwise keep the advantage to drive sales There's no advantage to a proprietary charge port. Closed charging networks are dumb infrastructure. Tesla is slowly realizing that switching to CCS will lead to higher utilization and reduced costs: https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/28/22596337/tesla-supercharger-elon-musk-open-network-charging-stations https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/28/22596337/tesla-supercharg... > Tesla has sunk almost $1B into its global fast DC charging network Then Tesla can spend some more to change the plugs over to CCS, just like they did in Europe.