6 ms·

This Is Why We Need to Return to Physical Media

48 points by indigodaddy 4y ago

IshKebab 4y ago
Meh I'll stick with digital media and piracy for when they screw it up. I feel like that's a reasonable compromise until they sort out the laws so this sort of thing can't happen. Returning to physical media isn't especially appealing.
imhoguy 4y ago
and return to P2P sharing, as I struggle to find so many niche or uncensored titles anywhere as they are not monetizable anymore.
ftyhbhyjnjk 4y ago
And then they complain people pirate movies... why the hell people wouldn't? Not to mention, one movie is available with Netflix, another with Disney, yet another with Prime and so on and so forth... how does all this even make any sense from a customer's point of view? We need physical media back. But, a little tweaked to modern way of consuming media. It would cost exorbitant amount of money for a single person to watch all of what that person watches these days. You can't expect him to buy physical media for all of these. Rentals help, but, as again, you don't own them. So, you can't afford to own all what you want, and renting is not owning at all. So, what's the solution? Maybe, movie studios should start with "cheap-to-rent-but-costly-to-own" model initially when a movie releases, and gradually as the time passes, the movie now becomes same price to own as was to rent initially... Streaming have sucked the life out of the entertainment business. It needs to do go away.
- indigodaddy 4y ago
  “ Maybe, movie studios should start with "cheap-to-rent-but-costly-to-own" model initially when a movie releases, and gradually as the time passes, the movie now becomes same price to own as was to rent initially...” Aren’t we seeing this exact trend already? Or are you saying new digital movies should cost even more than $20-30 initially?
- goosedragons 4y ago
  We need DRM free digital movies and we need better digital goods consumer rights. Why can't I lend my digital copy to a friend? Why can they just literally steal my copy of a movie? And before someone says "You're just buying a LiCeNSe", yeah that's the same as DVD and VHS but they couldn't come into my home and rip it off the shelf could they?
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    You are just buying a license; the difference is that the DVD/VHS license let you watch the movie whenever you wanted, wherever you wanted, as long as you had the physical copy (though subject to region restrictions in the case of DVD). With streaming services, you're buying a license that gives the rightsholder the ability to take it away from you at any time they want. I'm not sure how this is even legal; it gives all the power to the rightsholder.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Most movies are still released on Blu-Ray. But there are very few movies that I want to actually own in physical form to rewatch. If I did, I would buy them.
- js2 4y ago
  > Not to mention, one movie is available with Netflix, another with Disney, yet another with Prime and so on and so forth... how does all this even make any sense from a customer's point of view? I started to watch Valley Girl (1983) on my Criterion subscription on Sep 30. On Oct 1, I went to finish it. Gone. Can't finish the movie on Criterion. According to Just Watch, I can finish it on Amazon Prime. Maybe? I have Criterion and I have Prime, but who's got time for this crap? I downloaded it from Usenet instead.
  - indigodaddy 4y ago
    Yeah I remember seeing it show up on Prime. Then disappeared for a month or two. Then back on Prime. Weird how stuff disappears, if only for a few days/weeks/months. Happens on HBO Max frequently as well..
- maegul 4y ago
  We might be stuck with streaming as a “medium” for the time being. In line with your comment, I was wondering what the modern video rental would be. Blockbuster weren’t just sub-leasing their movies, they owned the physical copies. And any given video shop could have an excellent collection in one respect or another. The modern equivalent might be independent streaming services that legally own their video assets. Don’t know how viable that would be. But I found it useful as a contrast to the present where we are still in a compromise with studios in the wake of piracy.
mikewarot 4y ago
I loved Amélie, we saw it in the theater multiple times, I have the MP3s of the soundtrack in my music folder, ripped from a long lost CD. It is unacceptable that this great work of art is just gone from the world.
- scarface74 4y ago
  It’s available on DVD from Amazon.
  - mikewarot 4y ago
    Ok.. it's on it's way... perhaps in time for our Anniversary.. thanks!
    - pkroll 4y ago
      Also available on blu-ray, used, from Amazon at this moment. (But much cheaper and more plentiful on eBay.)
- indigodaddy 4y ago
  Bought Amelie a few years ago and it’s still playable in my Vudu library. Wonder if that was just a Canada thing.
- js2 4y ago
  Sheesh, you're right. I own it on on DVD. And I'm positive I've streamed it in HD in the past, but according to Just Watch it's not currently available anywhere for streaming. Amazon.com has the Blu-ray for $15.64 from the "Amazon Global Store UK" but it's apparently the Region B locked version, so it wouldn't play on my U.S. Bluray player. Meanwhile, there's a remux of the Blu-ray on usenet that took me 5 minutes to download. There, now I have it on my HTPC where no one can take it away from me, and I didn't have to wait 2-3 weeks for it to ship from the U.K. and rip it myself just to watch it. Edit: I think I purchased Amélie on iTunes a few years ago but Apple makes it really inconvenient to search your purchase history. You can't do it on the web. You have to do it in this horrible window in the TV App (macOS) or Settings app (iOS) that makes use pick a year, then scroll through it, go back, pick the next year, etc. No search. It's almost as if they don't want you to know the movie went missing. Let's try a GDPR data export. I should know in days... :(
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lucidguppy 4y ago
The last dvd I bought was Apollo 11 - just spectacular and I knew it wouldn't be available elsewhere.
NoboruWataya 4y ago
Totally agree about the many issues with streaming services, but I don't see how physical media is the solution. It comes with its own issues, principally waste. Surely a solution to this problem would simply being able to purchase movies for download in a common and lossless format?
- indigodaddy 4y ago
  But they would never allow that because they would say it promotes ease of piracy even moreso?
  - iamdamian 4y ago
    What about a DRM standard that's legally required to be portable across all devices and applications?
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      That's just no DRM at all. How else would you ensure universal compatibility? They'd have to also mandate a universal chip into all devices and it's fairly obvious why that'll never happen. At least, we should hope not.
- rchaud 4y ago
  > Surely a solution to this problem would simply being able to purchase movies for download in a common and lossless format? This is not a solution because it reduces the price of the media to $0. So distributors have no incentive to do this.
  - iggldiggl 4y ago
    On the one hand I understand that the circumstances of the respective markets (movies vs. other media) aren't directly comparable, but on the other hand - eBooks are often (though not always) available without DRM - to the extent that music is still sold instead of being streamed, no-DRM is more or less universal
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Use the library dvd rental system.
youssefabdelm 4y ago
Or just use torrents cause none of these companies can get their shit together... https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED297/610d0083656a8.jpeg https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED297/610d0083656...
- walrus01 4y ago
  Turns out my "physical media" is a few 8TB and 14TB WD USB3.0 hrs drives
  - jaxrtech 4y ago
    The speed at which I could get TBs of new drives or SSDs overnighted by Amazon without paying extra shipping (in the city, granted) is incredible.
iggldiggl 4y ago
I've recently noticed that even digital purchases (in the sense of a DRM-free download) aren't absolutely perfect in that regard – the lack of a working second-hand market for digital downloads means that a work being pulled from distribution is more or less guaranteed to instantly become completely unavailable (at least legally speaking – if you're lucky you can still find it under the table through less reputable sources) from one moment to the next. With physical media on the other hand first of all stopping distribution doesn't automatically mean recall of all existing stock from all shops, and in any case there's also the second hand market to completely legally fall back to.
bitwize 4y ago
I agree in principle, but this is going to sound to younger folks about as silly as Quentin Tarantino's insistence that only flickering 24fps celluloid counts as real cinema. We are doomed to live in a constantly shifting media-scape in which directors and studio heads alike get their fondest wish: to go back and change movies that have already been released and ensure the old ones are never seen again. And this will be normal and preferred by those who are to be born into this world. Gen Alpha won't brook anything but a version of Star Wars in which the Empire wins because they provide free gender-affirming care to trans stormtroopers.
ynbl_ 4y ago
yeah. paying to watch stuff on a website is a failed gimmick. i predict harsh prosecution once people realize they can get an infinitely better UX via piracy and not having companies choose what they watch and not having to do stupid stuff like web auth / web commerce
tmm84 4y ago
There was a time when the only way to see a movie was at a theatre. When home media and playback of video was gaining traction the movie companies eventually brought their content to home media. With the advent of streaming they have come full circle. Now, if you want to watch something more than likely it is something that is only streamable if you are the vast majority of the population of consumers. Good luck on that particular show/movie being available outside of streaming if you only watch it on purchased physical media and will not pirate it. In other words, media makers have finally gotten control of legal access to the entertainment they peddle leaving consumers to accept any changes, edits or blackouts that they deem okay.

48 points by indigodaddy 4y ago

Meh I'll stick with digital media and piracy for when they screw it up. I feel like that's a reasonable compromise until they sort out the laws so this sort of thing can't happen. Returning to physical media isn't especially appealing.

imhoguy 4y ago

and return to P2P sharing, as I struggle to find so many niche or uncensored titles anywhere as they are not monetizable anymore.

ftyhbhyjnjk 4y ago

And then they complain people pirate movies... why the hell people wouldn't? Not to mention, one movie is available with Netflix, another with Disney, yet another with Prime and so on and so forth... how does all this even make any sense from a customer's point of view? We need physical media back. But, a little tweaked to modern way of consuming media. It would cost exorbitant amount of money for a single person to watch all of what that person watches these days. You can't expect him to buy physical media for all of these. Rentals help, but, as again, you don't own them. So, you can't afford to own all what you want, and renting is not owning at all. So, what's the solution? Maybe, movie studios should start with "cheap-to-rent-but-costly-to-own" model initially when a movie releases, and gradually as the time passes, the movie now becomes same price to own as was to rent initially... Streaming have sucked the life out of the entertainment business. It needs to do go away.

indigodaddy 4y ago
“ Maybe, movie studios should start with "cheap-to-rent-but-costly-to-own" model initially when a movie releases, and gradually as the time passes, the movie now becomes same price to own as was to rent initially...” Aren’t we seeing this exact trend already? Or are you saying new digital movies should cost even more than $20-30 initially?
goosedragons 4y ago
We need DRM free digital movies and we need better digital goods consumer rights. Why can't I lend my digital copy to a friend? Why can they just literally steal my copy of a movie? And before someone says "You're just buying a LiCeNSe", yeah that's the same as DVD and VHS but they couldn't come into my home and rip it off the shelf could they?
- midoridensha 4y ago
  You are just buying a license; the difference is that the DVD/VHS license let you watch the movie whenever you wanted, wherever you wanted, as long as you had the physical copy (though subject to region restrictions in the case of DVD). With streaming services, you're buying a license that gives the rightsholder the ability to take it away from you at any time they want. I'm not sure how this is even legal; it gives all the power to the rightsholder.
scarface74 4y ago
Most movies are still released on Blu-Ray. But there are very few movies that I want to actually own in physical form to rewatch. If I did, I would buy them.
js2 4y ago
> Not to mention, one movie is available with Netflix, another with Disney, yet another with Prime and so on and so forth... how does all this even make any sense from a customer's point of view? I started to watch Valley Girl (1983) on my Criterion subscription on Sep 30. On Oct 1, I went to finish it. Gone. Can't finish the movie on Criterion. According to Just Watch, I can finish it on Amazon Prime. Maybe? I have Criterion and I have Prime, but who's got time for this crap? I downloaded it from Usenet instead.
- indigodaddy 4y ago
  Yeah I remember seeing it show up on Prime. Then disappeared for a month or two. Then back on Prime. Weird how stuff disappears, if only for a few days/weeks/months. Happens on HBO Max frequently as well..
maegul 4y ago
We might be stuck with streaming as a “medium” for the time being. In line with your comment, I was wondering what the modern video rental would be. Blockbuster weren’t just sub-leasing their movies, they owned the physical copies. And any given video shop could have an excellent collection in one respect or another. The modern equivalent might be independent streaming services that legally own their video assets. Don’t know how viable that would be. But I found it useful as a contrast to the present where we are still in a compromise with studios in the wake of piracy.

mikewarot 4y ago

I loved Amélie, we saw it in the theater multiple times, I have the MP3s of the soundtrack in my music folder, ripped from a long lost CD. It is unacceptable that this great work of art is just gone from the world.

scarface74 4y ago
It’s available on DVD from Amazon.
- mikewarot 4y ago
  Ok.. it's on it's way... perhaps in time for our Anniversary.. thanks!
  - pkroll 4y ago
    Also available on blu-ray, used, from Amazon at this moment. (But much cheaper and more plentiful on eBay.)
indigodaddy 4y ago
Bought Amelie a few years ago and it’s still playable in my Vudu library. Wonder if that was just a Canada thing.
js2 4y ago
Sheesh, you're right. I own it on on DVD. And I'm positive I've streamed it in HD in the past, but according to Just Watch it's not currently available anywhere for streaming. Amazon.com has the Blu-ray for $15.64 from the "Amazon Global Store UK" but it's apparently the Region B locked version, so it wouldn't play on my U.S. Bluray player. Meanwhile, there's a remux of the Blu-ray on usenet that took me 5 minutes to download. There, now I have it on my HTPC where no one can take it away from me, and I didn't have to wait 2-3 weeks for it to ship from the U.K. and rip it myself just to watch it. Edit: I think I purchased Amélie on iTunes a few years ago but Apple makes it really inconvenient to search your purchase history. You can't do it on the web. You have to do it in this horrible window in the TV App (macOS) or Settings app (iOS) that makes use pick a year, then scroll through it, go back, pick the next year, etc. No search. It's almost as if they don't want you to know the movie went missing. Let's try a GDPR data export. I should know in days... :(

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lucidguppy 4y ago

The last dvd I bought was Apollo 11 - just spectacular and I knew it wouldn't be available elsewhere.

NoboruWataya 4y ago

Totally agree about the many issues with streaming services, but I don't see how physical media is the solution. It comes with its own issues, principally waste. Surely a solution to this problem would simply being able to purchase movies for download in a common and lossless format?

indigodaddy 4y ago
But they would never allow that because they would say it promotes ease of piracy even moreso?
- iamdamian 4y ago
  What about a DRM standard that's legally required to be portable across all devices and applications?
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    That's just no DRM at all. How else would you ensure universal compatibility? They'd have to also mandate a universal chip into all devices and it's fairly obvious why that'll never happen. At least, we should hope not.
rchaud 4y ago
> Surely a solution to this problem would simply being able to purchase movies for download in a common and lossless format? This is not a solution because it reduces the price of the media to $0. So distributors have no incentive to do this.
- iggldiggl 4y ago
  On the one hand I understand that the circumstances of the respective markets (movies vs. other media) aren't directly comparable, but on the other hand - eBooks are often (though not always) available without DRM - to the extent that music is still sold instead of being streamed, no-DRM is more or less universal

mensetmanusman 4y ago

Use the library dvd rental system.

youssefabdelm 4y ago

Or just use torrents cause none of these companies can get their shit together... https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED297/610d0083656a8.jpeg https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED297/610d0083656...

walrus01 4y ago
Turns out my "physical media" is a few 8TB and 14TB WD USB3.0 hrs drives
- jaxrtech 4y ago
  The speed at which I could get TBs of new drives or SSDs overnighted by Amazon without paying extra shipping (in the city, granted) is incredible.

iggldiggl 4y ago

I've recently noticed that even digital purchases (in the sense of a DRM-free download) aren't absolutely perfect in that regard – the lack of a working second-hand market for digital downloads means that a work being pulled from distribution is more or less guaranteed to instantly become completely unavailable (at least legally speaking – if you're lucky you can still find it under the table through less reputable sources) from one moment to the next. With physical media on the other hand first of all stopping distribution doesn't automatically mean recall of all existing stock from all shops, and in any case there's also the second hand market to completely legally fall back to.

bitwize 4y ago

I agree in principle, but this is going to sound to younger folks about as silly as Quentin Tarantino's insistence that only flickering 24fps celluloid counts as real cinema. We are doomed to live in a constantly shifting media-scape in which directors and studio heads alike get their fondest wish: to go back and change movies that have already been released and ensure the old ones are never seen again. And this will be normal and preferred by those who are to be born into this world. Gen Alpha won't brook anything but a version of Star Wars in which the Empire wins because they provide free gender-affirming care to trans stormtroopers.

ynbl_ 4y ago

yeah. paying to watch stuff on a website is a failed gimmick. i predict harsh prosecution once people realize they can get an infinitely better UX via piracy and not having companies choose what they watch and not having to do stupid stuff like web auth / web commerce

tmm84 4y ago

There was a time when the only way to see a movie was at a theatre. When home media and playback of video was gaining traction the movie companies eventually brought their content to home media. With the advent of streaming they have come full circle. Now, if you want to watch something more than likely it is something that is only streamable if you are the vast majority of the population of consumers. Good luck on that particular show/movie being available outside of streaming if you only watch it on purchased physical media and will not pirate it. In other words, media makers have finally gotten control of legal access to the entertainment they peddle leaving consumers to accept any changes, edits or blackouts that they deem okay.