5 ms·

I wonder how much of this kneejerk reaction can be rooted back to being taught in school that copying is bad. If someone's copying me, they didn't have to do th

by johtso 4y ago

I wonder how much of this kneejerk reaction can be rooted back to being taught in school that copying is bad. If someone's copying me, they didn't have to do the hard work I did, and therefor it's immoral, even if it doesn't cause any loss for me.

bluecalm 4y ago
Well the loss you mention is not the only argument. The argument is about future incentives. If anyone is free to copy and fully use my work I will not do some of the work. It's about where the bar is. Most people agree copying someone's else novel and selling it is wrong. Copying parts of it that went into popular culture? Making variations on some characters? Those are more interesting. We just need to find some reasonable rules to balance various incentives.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > If anyone is free to copy and fully use my work I will not do some of the work. Why? Please read me carefully: I am not accusing you of resentment. But I already excluded issues of finance and recognition in my conditions above. So, other than spitefulness and resentment, what else might possess us to declare that if "anyone is free to copy and fully use" some work, then it's not worth doing? Do you not feel the incredible plenitude and abundance of creativity that urges you toward generosity? Is capitalism responsible for somehow poisoning us with the idea that scarcity is necessary for valuable endeavour?
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > But I already excluded issues of finance and recognition in my conditions above. Finance is pretty important though, if you want to feed and shelter yourself and your family. Most other types of work cannot be made worthless by others seeing it and copying it. But the work of researching and thinking and producing a solution can, so the government figured there should be a way to recoup costs and provide incentive.
  - bluecalm 4y ago
    It's not about resentment. It's about reward. Unless you're in a very privileged position you need to make money from your work or you won't be about to continue doing it. If you have done great work you hope to be rewarded for it and that includes financials. I want to live in a world where people who do awesome work are awesomely rewarded for it. I don't get what you're about with the scarcity argument. Everyone is free to write a novel or create software or whatever. I just want people who do the work to be in position to profit from it not someone who didn't do the work
    - nonrandomstring 4y ago
      But I'm telling you, for the third time now, that money is excluded from the argument I am making. Yet you keep dragging it back to the same spot again. Are you entrenched in that you are not able to see the world in any other way than through money? Yes, money is important. Now, can you forget that? Put it aside and try to move on to a higher level of thought? ("No" is a perfectly acceptable answer that would satisfy my genuine curiosity)
      - dotnet00 4y ago
        The point he's making is that you can't just say "money is excluded from the argument I'm making" and still be anywhere relevant to reality. People dislike copying because for most people it's an attack on their income, either by taking their recognition (eg copying "free" images from a photographer) or by actually taking their income (eg copying paid art). If you exclude financial arguments you exclude the vast majority of people who share their work. To bring this around to code, most popular licenses allow copying someone's code with proper attribution, so clearly copying is okay as long as you don't take recognition from a work that isn't profit motivated.
        nonrandomstring 4y ago
        I think "No" would have saved you many words. Nonetheless I am disappointed that there appears not a single voice amongst you who can conceive matters of creation outside a framework of money, income, profit, reward, theft, entitlement, licenses, capitalism, communism.... they really have you where they want you.
squeaky-clean 4y ago
It does cause loss for you. How many hours you spent on that original work have been wasted. You could have just spent 10 minutes copying someone else. To the downvoter, please do some free contract work for me. It causes you no loss.

by johtso 4y ago

bluecalm 4y ago

Well the loss you mention is not the only argument. The argument is about future incentives. If anyone is free to copy and fully use my work I will not do some of the work. It's about where the bar is. Most people agree copying someone's else novel and selling it is wrong. Copying parts of it that went into popular culture? Making variations on some characters? Those are more interesting. We just need to find some reasonable rules to balance various incentives.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
> If anyone is free to copy and fully use my work I will not do some of the work. Why? Please read me carefully: I am not accusing you of resentment. But I already excluded issues of finance and recognition in my conditions above. So, other than spitefulness and resentment, what else might possess us to declare that if "anyone is free to copy and fully use" some work, then it's not worth doing? Do you not feel the incredible plenitude and abundance of creativity that urges you toward generosity? Is capitalism responsible for somehow poisoning us with the idea that scarcity is necessary for valuable endeavour?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > But I already excluded issues of finance and recognition in my conditions above. Finance is pretty important though, if you want to feed and shelter yourself and your family. Most other types of work cannot be made worthless by others seeing it and copying it. But the work of researching and thinking and producing a solution can, so the government figured there should be a way to recoup costs and provide incentive.
- bluecalm 4y ago
  It's not about resentment. It's about reward. Unless you're in a very privileged position you need to make money from your work or you won't be about to continue doing it. If you have done great work you hope to be rewarded for it and that includes financials. I want to live in a world where people who do awesome work are awesomely rewarded for it. I don't get what you're about with the scarcity argument. Everyone is free to write a novel or create software or whatever. I just want people who do the work to be in position to profit from it not someone who didn't do the work
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    But I'm telling you, for the third time now, that money is excluded from the argument I am making. Yet you keep dragging it back to the same spot again. Are you entrenched in that you are not able to see the world in any other way than through money? Yes, money is important. Now, can you forget that? Put it aside and try to move on to a higher level of thought? ("No" is a perfectly acceptable answer that would satisfy my genuine curiosity)
    - dotnet00 4y ago
      The point he's making is that you can't just say "money is excluded from the argument I'm making" and still be anywhere relevant to reality. People dislike copying because for most people it's an attack on their income, either by taking their recognition (eg copying "free" images from a photographer) or by actually taking their income (eg copying paid art). If you exclude financial arguments you exclude the vast majority of people who share their work. To bring this around to code, most popular licenses allow copying someone's code with proper attribution, so clearly copying is okay as long as you don't take recognition from a work that isn't profit motivated.
      - nonrandomstring 4y ago
        I think "No" would have saved you many words. Nonetheless I am disappointed that there appears not a single voice amongst you who can conceive matters of creation outside a framework of money, income, profit, reward, theft, entitlement, licenses, capitalism, communism.... they really have you where they want you.

squeaky-clean 4y ago

It does cause loss for you. How many hours you spent on that original work have been wasted. You could have just spent 10 minutes copying someone else. To the downvoter, please do some free contract work for me. It causes you no loss.