5 ms·

Does anyone know what it is that looks like spaghetti on pretty much all of those steam engines?

by climb_stealth 4y ago

pan69 4y ago
I guess those are the pipes through which water flows that is heated and turned into steam.
- yetanotherloser 4y ago
  Other way around in locomotives. The fire goes through the tubes, the water surrounds them. The large number of tubes gives a really large surface area over which the fire's heat can be transferred to the water - it's a form of heat exchanger. The last energy of the exhaust steam from the cylinders is sent up the exhaust to create a forced draught that drags the fire through the tubes. Later industrial and marine boilers turned this inside out and sent the water through tubes in the fire like you describe. This can be more efficient (because it's easier to hold high pressure in water tubes than a loco boiler) but only a few locos tried it and it didn't deliver much benefit there - seems to have been hard to make work well in loco format.
  - winrid 4y ago
    Trains need higher volume + they also have less space for the firebox/men to load them. In a boat you also don't have a water storage challenge. In a train you can store the water in same place as boiler - big win. Still. The train sometimes stopping mid trip to build up steam was a thing.
    - analog31 4y ago
      Did steam ships run on salt water or did they have to carry the water?
      - somat 4y ago
        Ships needed a source of pure water for the engines. In fact the boiler feed water system usually had the highest priority for use of pure water ahead of drinking water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i442Y6TqHeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i442Y6TqHeg
      - saltcured 4y ago
        Not sure if you are only asking about very old steam ships. More modern designs, as used by various naval forces as well as commercial operators, still use steam to convert thermal energy to mechanical energy. This is true whether they burn crude oil or even have nuclear reactors. They have methods to "make water" by using some of their energy to run some kind of desalination plant. Traditionally, this was a distillation process. Newer ships might have reverse osmosis systems. I don't know which are preferred in military applications. Reverse osmosis is more energy efficient, but I can imagine that distillation may have more reliability under adverse conditions. I could imagine having both for efficiency with fault tolerance... They would still also have a reservoir to store water for later use. That way, all the available thermal power can be directed towards locomotion when necessary. They can make water periodically, when power demands allow it and in a manner that would be most efficient for the equipment. The desalination may not be perfect either. As I understand it, multiple US Navy ships inadvertently exposed their crews to Agent Orange during the Vietnam war through this process. They were not directly exposed to the chemical like victims on the land. Instead, the run-off from land went into river deltas and contaminated water was drawn in by nearby ships. The chemicals made it through the desalination process and into drinking water supplies.
capableweb 4y ago
It's Boiler tubes/Flues/Superheater tubes. Basically allows the gas to go from the back to the front producing steam along the way. Superheater does the same but with the steam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater#Locomotives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater#Locomotives
- tromp 4y ago
  Looking at these pictures, the phrase "spilling its guts" comes to mind.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  It would probably take all day to heat to steam a boiler that was just a big vessel full of water. So little surface area relative to the volume.
thrdbndndn 4y ago
Heat exchanger
esel2k 4y ago
We have a museum here in Mulhouse France where they cut open a locomotive and added LEDs in blue and red to show the different tubes and exchange of heat. Quiet interesting and helped me to understand how it works. Here an image of it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Cite_du_Train_Mulhouse_2014_082_%2815952923997%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Cite_du_... Edit: Typo
- mstade 4y ago
  That’s amazing, thanks for sharing!
perihelions 4y ago
Here's what one of the modern descendants of those things looks like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(nuclear_power) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(nuclear_power...
layer8 4y ago
Whatever it is, it gives me Cthulu vibes.

Does anyone know what it is that looks like spaghetti on pretty much all of those steam engines?

pan69 4y ago

I guess those are the pipes through which water flows that is heated and turned into steam.

yetanotherloser 4y ago
Other way around in locomotives. The fire goes through the tubes, the water surrounds them. The large number of tubes gives a really large surface area over which the fire's heat can be transferred to the water - it's a form of heat exchanger. The last energy of the exhaust steam from the cylinders is sent up the exhaust to create a forced draught that drags the fire through the tubes. Later industrial and marine boilers turned this inside out and sent the water through tubes in the fire like you describe. This can be more efficient (because it's easier to hold high pressure in water tubes than a loco boiler) but only a few locos tried it and it didn't deliver much benefit there - seems to have been hard to make work well in loco format.
- winrid 4y ago
  Trains need higher volume + they also have less space for the firebox/men to load them. In a boat you also don't have a water storage challenge. In a train you can store the water in same place as boiler - big win. Still. The train sometimes stopping mid trip to build up steam was a thing.
  - analog31 4y ago
    Did steam ships run on salt water or did they have to carry the water?
    - somat 4y ago
      Ships needed a source of pure water for the engines. In fact the boiler feed water system usually had the highest priority for use of pure water ahead of drinking water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i442Y6TqHeg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i442Y6TqHeg
    - saltcured 4y ago
      Not sure if you are only asking about very old steam ships. More modern designs, as used by various naval forces as well as commercial operators, still use steam to convert thermal energy to mechanical energy. This is true whether they burn crude oil or even have nuclear reactors. They have methods to "make water" by using some of their energy to run some kind of desalination plant. Traditionally, this was a distillation process. Newer ships might have reverse osmosis systems. I don't know which are preferred in military applications. Reverse osmosis is more energy efficient, but I can imagine that distillation may have more reliability under adverse conditions. I could imagine having both for efficiency with fault tolerance... They would still also have a reservoir to store water for later use. That way, all the available thermal power can be directed towards locomotion when necessary. They can make water periodically, when power demands allow it and in a manner that would be most efficient for the equipment. The desalination may not be perfect either. As I understand it, multiple US Navy ships inadvertently exposed their crews to Agent Orange during the Vietnam war through this process. They were not directly exposed to the chemical like victims on the land. Instead, the run-off from land went into river deltas and contaminated water was drawn in by nearby ships. The chemicals made it through the desalination process and into drinking water supplies.

capableweb 4y ago

It's Boiler tubes/Flues/Superheater tubes. Basically allows the gas to go from the back to the front producing steam along the way. Superheater does the same but with the steam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive_components https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater#Locomotives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheater#Locomotives

tromp 4y ago
Looking at these pictures, the phrase "spilling its guts" comes to mind.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
It would probably take all day to heat to steam a boiler that was just a big vessel full of water. So little surface area relative to the volume.

thrdbndndn 4y ago

Heat exchanger

esel2k 4y ago

We have a museum here in Mulhouse France where they cut open a locomotive and added LEDs in blue and red to show the different tubes and exchange of heat. Quiet interesting and helped me to understand how it works. Here an image of it: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Cite_du_Train_Mulhouse_2014_082_%2815952923997%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Cite_du_... Edit: Typo

mstade 4y ago
That’s amazing, thanks for sharing!

perihelions 4y ago

Here's what one of the modern descendants of those things looks like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(nuclear_power) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_generator_(nuclear_power...

layer8 4y ago

Whatever it is, it gives me Cthulu vibes.