6 ms·

Why isn't the Holodomor taught in schools?

33 points by tarakat 4y ago

leobg 4y ago
That page serves me this ad at the top, which is an obvious scam: Ad by Best Gadget Advice Save on heating costs with this incredible mini heater! If you hate the cold but don't want to raise your heating bills, you need to get this! Learn More
kingofkyiv 4y ago
[dead]
zumu 4y ago
Is it not? I learned about the Holodomor in high school in Oklahoma of all places.
spoiler 4y ago
I guess because history is full of this kinda stuff, sadly. In Croatian school system (unless you study history, I assume?) half the curriculum is world history and European history (with like... only a few hours of international History jammed together) and the other half is our country or local regional history that affect Croatia in some way. I can't fathom where'd they'd slot all the horrendous historical anecdotes amongst all the horrendous historical anecdotes Croatia has been a part of. There would need to be a lot more history. Also, there was a period of "recent history" (but maybe that was in highschool) that was more political/nuanced from what I very vaguely remember
- nufflee 4y ago
  Fellow Croatian here, Holodomor was actually briefly mentioned in my high school history class 2 years ago.
- tarakat 4y ago
  History is full of any kind of event that may be taught, so that is a fully general answer: it can explain why anything isn't taught, and applies equally to things that are taught. And the part of Andrew Tanner's Quora answer (top answer at submission time) that says it's because "it had relatively little impact on other historical events" is tautological - it would have had more impact if it was taught and publicized more. So neither is a satisfying explanation.
EGreg 4y ago
Some famines are caused by misguided collectivization / socialism enforced by the state, such as Holodomor and this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine Others were caused by misguided protections of landlords / private property / capitalism enforced by the state, such as the Irish Potato Famine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Still others by State Capitalism / imperialism of some kind, such as the famines under the British Raj and East India company — the one in Bengal was more recent than Holodomor even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 If you’re going to teach things, you need to find patterns and try to discern the root causes. Otherwise you’re just imparting biased propaganda to students. How many people here knew about all these famines, not just Holodomor?
- type0 4y ago
  We learned about Irish Famine and Chinese Famine in school but not Holodomor or Bengal Famine. Holodomor is a special kind of famine that was politically and ethnically motivated. Ostensibly Ukrainian Don and Kuban Cossak territories to the south east were greatly affected. This needs to be seen in the context of Decossackization and Dekulakization.
  - evgen 4y ago
    > Holodomor is a special kind of famine that was politically and ethnically motivated. This also applies to the Irish Potato Famine and that one is much more ethnically and culturally relevant for Americans, for example, so for the past century or so that was the one that was taught. Displacing its pedagogical role in US history education is just not going to happen.
    - sc68cal 4y ago
      The Irish potato famine is taught in American schools as something that just happened because the Irish depended on potatoes. No discussion of how British policy created these circumstances. When socialism does it, we teach how the policy and ideology made it happen. When it happens anywhere else, it's how it was an unfortunate disaster caused by nature
sn0w_crash 4y ago
It’s a socialist-policy induced famine. Imagine a public school teacher having to explain this to a student without ideology getting in the way, their head would explode.
- taolegal 4y ago
  Very true. After all it was Upton Sinclair who said: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

33 points by tarakat 4y ago

That page serves me this ad at the top, which is an obvious scam: Ad by Best Gadget Advice Save on heating costs with this incredible mini heater! If you hate the cold but don't want to raise your heating bills, you need to get this! Learn More

kingofkyiv 4y ago

[dead]

zumu 4y ago

Is it not? I learned about the Holodomor in high school in Oklahoma of all places.

spoiler 4y ago

I guess because history is full of this kinda stuff, sadly. In Croatian school system (unless you study history, I assume?) half the curriculum is world history and European history (with like... only a few hours of international History jammed together) and the other half is our country or local regional history that affect Croatia in some way. I can't fathom where'd they'd slot all the horrendous historical anecdotes amongst all the horrendous historical anecdotes Croatia has been a part of. There would need to be a lot more history. Also, there was a period of "recent history" (but maybe that was in highschool) that was more political/nuanced from what I very vaguely remember

nufflee 4y ago
Fellow Croatian here, Holodomor was actually briefly mentioned in my high school history class 2 years ago.
tarakat 4y ago
History is full of any kind of event that may be taught, so that is a fully general answer: it can explain why anything isn't taught, and applies equally to things that are taught. And the part of Andrew Tanner's Quora answer (top answer at submission time) that says it's because "it had relatively little impact on other historical events" is tautological - it would have had more impact if it was taught and publicized more. So neither is a satisfying explanation.

EGreg 4y ago

Some famines are caused by misguided collectivization / socialism enforced by the state, such as Holodomor and this one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine Others were caused by misguided protections of landlords / private property / capitalism enforced by the state, such as the Irish Potato Famine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) Still others by State Capitalism / imperialism of some kind, such as the famines under the British Raj and East India company — the one in Bengal was more recent than Holodomor even: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 If you’re going to teach things, you need to find patterns and try to discern the root causes. Otherwise you’re just imparting biased propaganda to students. How many people here knew about all these famines, not just Holodomor?

type0 4y ago
We learned about Irish Famine and Chinese Famine in school but not Holodomor or Bengal Famine. Holodomor is a special kind of famine that was politically and ethnically motivated. Ostensibly Ukrainian Don and Kuban Cossak territories to the south east were greatly affected. This needs to be seen in the context of Decossackization and Dekulakization.
- evgen 4y ago
  > Holodomor is a special kind of famine that was politically and ethnically motivated. This also applies to the Irish Potato Famine and that one is much more ethnically and culturally relevant for Americans, for example, so for the past century or so that was the one that was taught. Displacing its pedagogical role in US history education is just not going to happen.
  - sc68cal 4y ago
    The Irish potato famine is taught in American schools as something that just happened because the Irish depended on potatoes. No discussion of how British policy created these circumstances. When socialism does it, we teach how the policy and ideology made it happen. When it happens anywhere else, it's how it was an unfortunate disaster caused by nature

sn0w_crash 4y ago

It’s a socialist-policy induced famine. Imagine a public school teacher having to explain this to a student without ideology getting in the way, their head would explode.

taolegal 4y ago
Very true. After all it was Upton Sinclair who said: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."