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Immigration accounts for over 94% of Canada’s population growth in Q2 of 2022

108 points by tarakat 4y ago

orangepurple 4y ago
1 out of 100 persons randomly chosen in Canada has immigrated less than one year ago if the statistic is true: 430k new immigrants per year for a country with a population of 38 million. Wow. And considering that migrants tend to cluster together these immigration hotspots like Toronto will see multiple % growth annually in new arrivals! That is seriously fast population growth! Replacement?
- pcbro141 4y ago
  > Replacement? What exactly is your question? Could be interpreted a number of ways.
  - cycrutchfield 4y ago
    You know exactly what that word is referring to.
    - pcbro141 4y ago
      Most likely aggrieved the immigrants are nonwhite and spouting Great Replacement Theory. I just wanted to see if they were brave enough to say it.
      - orangepurple 4y ago
        You misunderstood. I am referring to the replacement of Canadian culture. There is no hope of integration with such a high rate of immigration.
        cycrutchfield 4y ago
        I don’t think they misunderstood you at all
0xpotato 4y ago
Curious on the distribution of the duration of immigrants in Canada. Any data points on this?
- adra 4y ago
  It's be hard to track the number who stay and for how long. Just because they're coming to Canada doesn't mean they stay long term. Many immigrate, explore, then move on. Others hope that Canada is a softer immigration path into the US. This seems to have some Merritt in the past, though I'm not sure how effective that strategy is now. Anyways, here's one source https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigrants-in-canada/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigra...
- jackcosgrove 4y ago
  This survey said up to 30% of young immigrants may leave within two years. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/young-immigrants-may-leave-canada-due-to-high-cost-of-living-survey-1.5835140 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/young-immigrants-may-leave-can... I have heard this elsewhere, that Canada loses a lot of its immigrants either to return or another destination (most likely the US). The rate of immigration is not as high as the headline number for this reason, but 20% of Canada's population is still foreign born which exceeds the historical peak in the US during the 1900s and 1910s.
3qz 4y ago
Canada has an immigration rate 10x the rate of the US but any discussion of lowering this is considered racist. I have a top 5% income but I will never own a house in my life and can’t access a family doctor. We have way too many people! The population is expected to be 50% foreign born or children of immigrants by 2040 and it’s already majority foreign born in our biggest cities. I honestly don’t expect this country to stay together for more than a few more decades. What is a Canadian? The “melting pot” theory of integration is also considered racist here because Canada is a “mosaic” where everyone has the right to keep their old culture and live in an ethnic enclave with no expectation of assimilation.
- humanlion87 4y ago
  Not having access to doctors or being unable to afford housing are due to policy failures in other areas, not purely due to higher immigration. Canada will find it tough to replenish it's workforce without high rates of immigration.
  - sbaiddn 4y ago
    Canada has a housing crisis because no one is stupid enough to arrive to Canada and move to Thunder Bay (sorry TB, but you know its true). As a result all these people go live in one of three or four cities. The situation is more akin to the rapid urbanization in the third world. Infrastructure cant keep up. Just try GTA traffic. People move to Barrie just to afford a house in the GTA (Barries not GTA!). Sure Canada is "empty", but its also an inhospitable frozen waste land with 90% of the population living within 100 km of the US border. When we say Canada is "full" what we mean is that Canada cannot build fast enough. That the 3000 km^2 worth living in in Canada are really really dense.
    - bushbaba 4y ago
      The west lost it's ability to build new cities. Canada could be more like china and use multiple billions to build/encourage growth outside their core city centers. It has the land. Arguably GDP would benefit from having more populous cities between Vancouver and Toronto. Heck just give Canadians a 0% interest, 0 down mortgage for building a 500k home and residing in it for at least 10 years in say Regina.
version_five 4y ago
Immigration is not necessarily a concern. But Canada afaik does not have multicultural immigration, we have a very narrow set of countries utterly dominating our immigrants. Personally I don't think that is a good thing, diversity is important, and we need to be better at balancing the mix of people that come here to avoid monoculture
- briga 4y ago
  Hasn’t that always been the way it has worked? For the longest time Canadian immigration was restricted to the British isles and Western Europe (look up the Chinese immigration restriction acts). Compared to then Canada has pretty much opened the floodgates of immigration from all over the world. I don’t see the monoculture you’re suggesting, and regularly meet people from all over the globe here
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  "Diversity" for the sake of "diversity" is stupid and more importantly racism.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  Can you clarify what you mean by a narrow set of countries dominating immigrants? Is it disproportionate relative to the world population in general, disproportionate relative to all people migrating from one country to another?
- refurb 4y ago
  > But Canada afaik does not have multicultural immigration This is not correct. Toronto is 52% visible minorities. Even mid-sized cities like Calgary have big immigrant populations from Asia. When I visiting the wilderness of BC I actually ran into a guy who owned a fruit orchard who immigrated from India a few years back.
jimbob45 4y ago
Diving deeper into StatsCan’s estimate, it becomes clear that non-permanent residents — including asylum claimants, work and study permit holders and victims of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — made up most of the new additions to Canada’s population in the second quarter of 2022 Good for StatsCan for delineating their results and publishing their methodology. I see too many studies posted on HN with little to no methodology available. But, I fear that this estimate will be misleadingly used as a right-wing talking point. I don’t think many individuals would consider non-permanent residents to be “immigrants”. I certainly wouldn’t think the right-wingers would lump them in with the immigrants they consider to be problematic.
_8j50 4y ago
I wonder how much if america's worker shortage issues can be fixed by fixing immigration. Free higher education at public colleges can also go a long way. We need more people who get this stuff but hate politics to become politicians.
- jwond 4y ago
  When corporations and the wealthy complain about worker shortages it seems to me they really just don’t want to have to raise wages or improve working conditions to attract workers. Or in the case of jobs that require certain training or education they don’t want to have to provide that training or education.
  - _8j50 4y ago
    That is bullshit propaganda. I work in infosec, one of the most interesting fields out there. No degree and I get paid very very well. We are so short on talent we are forced to hire outside the US. 90% of applicants are terrible by any meaningful metric. Even when I interviewed at a startup once they told me 85% of applicants couldn't get past technical questionaire where the hardest question was having to fix bad syntax in a 6-7 line python code. We got a guy who just got his BSC in infosec and even then they teach them so little it is ridiculous. I am talking about 90K+ for 0 experience at most places! I am not very smart, I am terrible at making friends and networking, 0 social skills, absolutley unattractive or charming. Why am I doing well? Why is everyone else complaining? I am baffled about "quiet quit" bullshit. Why don't people have self respect and pride in their work? I get retail workers getting paid an unlivable wage but come on! You don't have to code or work in infosec, before all this I worked various blue collar jobs that have similar high demand (and this was 5+ yrs ago), still no degree and all my training was on the job and it was paying ok (60-75k). Why don't people want money? That is the question that baffles me so much. I mean, even if writing code was the only way to get paid 6 figures, why aren't people lining up to code even if they hate it with passion? You get money! Of course, it is because the immigrants and minorities are taking all the jobs (I wish they would at least the things can get done). Even in US colleges and companies, look at who is writing all the papers and new findings in STEM and compsci: a lot of asian immigrants/students!
oneoff786 4y ago
Canada’s fertility rate is 1.47 It would be shrinking if not for immigration.
- deleted 4y ago
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nxm 4y ago
This is unsustainable long term and will lead to a downgrade in the quality of life for the average Canadian. GDP per capita peaked in early 2010s and continues to go down
Ralo 4y ago
Most of them are being thrown into the entry job that people are claiming "couldn't be filled anyways". I remember hunting for my first job as a teenager and it was pretty difficult, not a lot of openings, even less willing to take someone with zero experience. I'm not even that old, that was maybe 7-8 years ago. Many of these locations have a bias in their hiring as well, they gift their family and friends positions in these companies, refusing to work with anyone else. I seriously cannot remember the last time I have seen someone who isn't Indian working at Tim Hortons. I cannot imagine having to find a first job as a 16/17/18 year old.
- deleted 4y ago
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- notadev 4y ago
  I am having a similar problem with my son. We live in a very progressive county and he is finally eligible to work, but there are effectively zero places he can get a job. The traditional teen jobs like paper route, fast food, etc., are all filled by middle-aged immigrants.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Can you even hire teenagers anymore? Is it still common for teenagers to work (outside of internships)? I can’t say I ever knew anyone who worked before university and in my school some teachers actively discouraged it. (I went to high school in Canada in the early 2010s). Although the hiring bias makes sense. Of course you choose relatives over strangers so that the money stays in the family.
  - Ralo 4y ago
    I believe before 18, you need your parents and school principle to sign off. I don't know many kids who didn't work directly out of high school, even with university but in that case, they're just being carried by their parents and will skip directly from "first job" to "their life long career" after graduation.
    - 4y ago
spoonjim 4y ago
Canada built an exquisite society and is now handing out the benefits to whoever asks.
- pcbro141 4y ago
  Are immigrants mostly just leeching benefits and not contributing to building Canadian society? Based on what facts do you come to this conclusion? Has immigration historically played a role in building the exquisite Canadian society you speak of?
- goatsi 4y ago
  Are you unaware of the relatively strict requirements for immigration to Canada? Go ahead, see if you would make the cut: https://www.y-axis.com/skilledimmigrationpointscalculator/canada/ https://www.y-axis.com/skilledimmigrationpointscalculator/ca...
mensetmanusman 4y ago
I’m surprised people are going where housing is so expensive, where are they living?
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Housing in Canada is expensive for North America. Relative to incomes it remains cheap.
  - 3qz 4y ago
    That’s not true at all.. Almost nobody with a house in Canada has the income to buy it at current prices. The only way most people can do it is because they bought a long time ago or got an inheritance from somebody who bought a long time ago
  - refurb 4y ago
    No. It's actually less affordable than the US relative to income. That said, it's undergoing a massive correction right now, so you may be right in 3-5 years.
  - abrichr 4y ago
    Can you please provide a source? According to https://data.oecd.org/price/housing-prices.htm https://data.oecd.org/price/housing-prices.htm Canada is only behind Portugal and The Netherlands in terms of housing price to income ratio.
- trinovantes 4y ago
  There are a lot of illegal housing arrangements like 2-3 families in a basement that cities tend overlook (utility usage not matching with official data) because that's the only way they can sustain the population/economic growth without triggering NIMBYs
AlimJaffer 4y ago
As with many western countries, there's a rising sentiment against immigration due to the lack of infrastructure provided to the existing citizenry. Housing in Canada is some of the least affordable in the world, our health care system is deeply underfunded, competition for spots at post secondary is rising as the institutions accept more international students as they're cash cows, and we're slowly seeing a rise in populism with the the Conservative Party electing Pierre Poilievre who is a Trump-lite figure who rails on about being for the working class while simultaneously voting against dental coverage for poor children [1]. It genuinely feels like the political class has abandoned its people and has sold out to special interest groups entirely. We import tons of TFW's (temporary foreign workers) to appease the corps to have cheap labour, and these TFW's are often treated terribly by the corps. As a first generation Canadian who is the child of refugees, I really do worry about the future of this country. I know tons of couples who are putting off having kids entirely because of the bleak economic picture in our major cities. We need immigration due to the low birthrate, but there's significant resentment from those who want kids and simply cannot afford them which is pushing down our numbers further. [1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-calls-out-poilievre-and-conservatives-for-opposing-kids-dental-benefit-while-mps-enjoy-comprehensive-coverage-1.6088673 https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-calls-out-poilievre-and-...
oatmeal_croc 4y ago
Canada is pretty much screwed without immigration, because nobody's having babies and the top talent keeps leaving to the US. Without immigration, they'd have a largely older population and not enough people to pay taxes for their free healthcare (which I don't think is sustainable or great even with immigration). Canada is also pretty selective about the skilled immigrants they let in, they don't do a random lottery or FIFO but have a points based system. You may argue about the parameters of how points are scored, but there's little doubt that it's better than a lottery.
FpUser 4y ago
Duh. What else would you expect when fertility rate is so low. It is either depopulate or bring in new people.
bentlegen 4y ago
I am sure a number of people will make comments here pointing to Canada’s struggling healthcare system as a direct effect of these immigration numbers. I just want to point out that the current and recently re-elected Ontario government (representing 14.5 million people) is currently running a $2b budget surplus [1] while simultaneously capping healthcare workers’ pay raises to just 1% a year [2] in a time of record inflation. That is to say: you get what you pay (and vote) for. [1] https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002311/ontario-releases-2021-2022-public-accounts https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002311/ontario-releases-... [2] https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Also, immigrants probably disproportionately staff our health system. Our immigration system heavily favours educated professionals with job offers.
  - alephxyz 4y ago
    And the ones who aren't educated often choose to become nurses, auxiliaries or beneficiary attendants. The training is 2-3 years, you get a yearly stipend and nearly guaranteed a job offer.
- Teever 4y ago
  That's an odd take. Most of the discussion that I see online about detrimental aspects of Canadian immigration levels are focused on housing prices/availability than health care. I think most people acknowledge that immigrants are young and relatively more fit and therefore don't consume health services nearly as much as aging, western boomers. The major issue we're facing due to the high immigration levels is the strain that it's putting on our housing availability levels. Those 270k people/year need to live somewhere, right now and that has direct effects on cost of living of everyone in Canada.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
cududa 4y ago
Ask Japan how it's going for them with a plummeting population level, exploding elderly population, almost a million unfilled job positions, and hardline anti-immigration policies.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  A peaceful, by and large harmonious society where everyone is basically on the same page? Sure, certain industrial sectors are begging for more manpower and social security is on a ticking time bomb, but those are all arguably minor on the grander scale.
  - cududa 4y ago
    It's absolutely horrific you'd refer to elder care and social security as "arguably minor".
    - huggingrear 4y ago
      Japan has the highest life expectancy in the whole world, which is certainly a factor in them skewing so old. If their elder care was so terrible, I doubt their elders would be the world's most healthy and long-living.
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      They are minor because they are ultimately issues concerning money, and issues concerning money can ALWAYS be solved given enough political and social will. Compare, say, multiple separate groups of people and cultures sitting next to each other who may or may not like each others' company as a consequence of aggressive immigration policies. You can't just throw more money at such a problem to make all the ills go away, such problems that we can't just zap away are major problems meriting more serious concern and attention.
nimbius 4y ago
true story I honestly considered emigrating from the us to Canada as a diesel engine mechanic when I was a greenhorn. Kirkland lake, a mining company, flew me up for two weeks to see things in their repair pool and even offered relocation. from my observation blue collar work in Alberta at least is seen as equal or better than white collar. you're treated sincerely and honestly at the job site and there is real respect and concern for your safety and productivity on the job. there is a very tangible and defined career path you can take, with lucrative benefits and meaningful lasting retirement. I chickened out at 19 because I didn't understand the implications of the citizenship, which requires a pledge of allegiance to the queen. old timers at my shop managed to scare me out of it but to this day I still dream of Canada.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Good news! You don’t have to pledge allegiance to the Queen anymore. Jokes aside there can be real implications of citizenship that people should be aware of, such as military service, taxes, and more. It’s not to be done lightly.
archhn 4y ago
I've been watching some geopolitical strategists on YouTube. They seem to be expecting a collapse of the global world order. This means they need to flood North America with fresh labor to compensate for the loss of global labor or inefficiency of doing business in a war-torn international climate. Also, the demographics are bad in the first world. Low birth rates and an aging population. I would not be surprised if the present culture was engineered to quell any dissent over the new immigration policies.
- abrichr 4y ago
  Interesting. Can you please share some links to the videos you are describing?
- pram 4y ago
  Sounds interesting, what channels?
  - archhn 4y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA-jOLF2T4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA-jOLF2T4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg7pZi6peD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg7pZi6peD4
aborsy 4y ago
What does future hold for Canada? It has little tech, manufacturing or other productive industry. It was actually among the first in mobile business, with Nortel & RIM. US and China took its lunch. The jobs seem to be mostly in government, finance and service. On the other hand, housing in Canada is ridiculously unaffordable. Frankly, it might be better off as a US state, considering it has low population and isn’t able to build a competitive economy.
LAC-Tech 4y ago
Similar situation in New Zealand. The reasons are pretty similar 1. It benefits big business. It's an absolute god send for labour intensive industries to have a constantly growing pool of employees. Especially if they're from places with a worse standard of living, so they're likely to accept much lower working conditions and pay. 2. It benefits real estate speculation. Housing construction simply cannot keep up in demand, and the richest people in our respective countries have a real estate heavy portfolio. Migrants trickle into city centres, which means big construction projects as high density housing is built, as well as the knock on effective of the native born population migrating to new suburbs that get to be built from the ground up. 3. You get to feel warm and fuzzy inside. Diversity, inclusion, different foods etc etc. If native born people pay higher rents, are served by increasingly overcapacity infrastructure, and have their wages suppressed by increased competition - well they're just immoral and can be brow-beaten into accepting policies that are ultimately in place to benefit the rich.
- sn0w_crash 4y ago
  #3 is a big one. The warm and fuzzy feeling is also why many people are unwilling to even consider the negatives, or have a discussion. Some call it an ideological paralysis but it’s more of an addiction to moral grandstanding.
mercy_dude 4y ago
Current liberal government is running a very wild experiment here with regards to immigration. For context, when I graduated from a Canadian university back in 2014, there was a very straightforward immigration system. The students graduating from a Canadian university would get the permanent residence within about 2yrs, inna Fast track manner. Provinces used to have their own cap and “eligibility criteria” for labor pools correlated with job categories with highest demands. Then Canada decided to run some kind of a wild federally run “point based” immigration system starting 2015. Under that scheme, criterias such as education, job experience get you some assigned points. For example someone with a masters degree would get 20 points and someone with 10yr job experience would get 25points etc. You would qualify if your points are above some threshold and Federal government runs some kind of lotteries every few weeks to pick candidates in the qualified pool inviting them to apply. Except the problem is now, there are too many frauds in the system. In many countries, accreditation and job experiences can be easily bought. And now that international students graduating from Canada fall under the same pool, they have to compete with these same people sometimes holding masters degrees with job experiences that are “bought”. Result is many international students are putting up with extreme delays and most wealthier populace from third world countries buying their way out the PR with fake “points”. Add to that super visa, which gives parents and grandparents of anyone in Canada with permanent residence 10yrs visa. And finally add to that the “visitors” to Canada who end up claiming asylum, many of them crossing the border from US. In this year alone that number has surpassed 35k. Just talk to any immigration attorney and the reality on the ground is abysmal, many are taking wild advantage of lenient refugee program. Result is an extremely backlogged immigration system, rising costs of housing, slow wage growth at entry levels. Now back to The current liberal government and media Who have basically made it equivalent to racism to even talk about this issue. Very recently, a provincial immigration minister was vilified for bringing this issue to light saying “more immigrants beyond a certain cap would be a suicide”. Which is indeed true as the strained healthcare system already shows. Immigrants tend to come to Canada for its tolerant populace and free healthcare (at least when compared to US). But lately this is coming to a questionable reality as healthcare quality and wait times have gotten so bad many people are seeking private healthcare if they can afford. Coupled with a cost of living nightmare in most big cities such as Toronto and Vancouver, it is not a positive outlook and it can seriously turn the populace anti immigration and make this a seriously political issue as in US.
hgs3 4y ago
Sad. Following supply and demand economics, if there is a low supply of workers and a high demand for them, then workers must be paid more. In reality, wages stagnate, culture erodes, and systems strain because those in power artificially raise the supply of workers via immigration. Unions struggle due to the social frictions of working in a multi-cultural melting pot. Countries losing folks due to immigration are being brain drained. If you try to fight against this, you're called "racist" i.e. social engineering is weaponized to manipulate you and those around you into submission. Your kindness is used against you. Capitalism at its finest /s.
bryanlarsen 4y ago
In many countries immigration accounts for over 100% of the growth even though their rates are lower than Canada's. Many countries would be shrinking without immigration.
zaptheimpaler 4y ago
Yeah Canada is racist as fuck because of these tensions. The best part is how the media and politicians have the citizens blaming the immigrants, while the politicians and developers welcome both cheap labor and rich trust fund kids. A quick tour of the govt stats and reports on immigration show they desperately need young people to pay taxes and prop up the aging population.
nwmcsween 4y ago
So as someone who has "interviewed" the lower class immigrants and TFW, it's truely a depressing situation, a particular one showed me they lived in a converted garage with units similar to a storage locker (6x6ft) while paying a large sum of their wage (the business had a cork board with these "livable" storage units for rent) and broke down crying half way through. There have been thousands of other instances of businesess abusing this as well. Hopefully more Canadians will ask questions and stop the abuse.
kaushikc 4y ago
Canada and Australia seem to be in a very similar situation with regards to the issues surrounding immigration. https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/9j04p149 https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/9j04p149

108 points by tarakat 4y ago

1 out of 100 persons randomly chosen in Canada has immigrated less than one year ago if the statistic is true: 430k new immigrants per year for a country with a population of 38 million. Wow. And considering that migrants tend to cluster together these immigration hotspots like Toronto will see multiple % growth annually in new arrivals! That is seriously fast population growth! Replacement?

pcbro141 4y ago
> Replacement? What exactly is your question? Could be interpreted a number of ways.
- cycrutchfield 4y ago
  You know exactly what that word is referring to.
  - pcbro141 4y ago
    Most likely aggrieved the immigrants are nonwhite and spouting Great Replacement Theory. I just wanted to see if they were brave enough to say it.
    - orangepurple 4y ago
      You misunderstood. I am referring to the replacement of Canadian culture. There is no hope of integration with such a high rate of immigration.
      - cycrutchfield 4y ago
        I don’t think they misunderstood you at all

0xpotato 4y ago

Curious on the distribution of the duration of immigrants in Canada. Any data points on this?

adra 4y ago
It's be hard to track the number who stay and for how long. Just because they're coming to Canada doesn't mean they stay long term. Many immigrate, explore, then move on. Others hope that Canada is a softer immigration path into the US. This seems to have some Merritt in the past, though I'm not sure how effective that strategy is now. Anyways, here's one source https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigrants-in-canada/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigra...
jackcosgrove 4y ago
This survey said up to 30% of young immigrants may leave within two years. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/young-immigrants-may-leave-canada-due-to-high-cost-of-living-survey-1.5835140 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/young-immigrants-may-leave-can... I have heard this elsewhere, that Canada loses a lot of its immigrants either to return or another destination (most likely the US). The rate of immigration is not as high as the headline number for this reason, but 20% of Canada's population is still foreign born which exceeds the historical peak in the US during the 1900s and 1910s.

3qz 4y ago

Canada has an immigration rate 10x the rate of the US but any discussion of lowering this is considered racist. I have a top 5% income but I will never own a house in my life and can’t access a family doctor. We have way too many people! The population is expected to be 50% foreign born or children of immigrants by 2040 and it’s already majority foreign born in our biggest cities. I honestly don’t expect this country to stay together for more than a few more decades. What is a Canadian? The “melting pot” theory of integration is also considered racist here because Canada is a “mosaic” where everyone has the right to keep their old culture and live in an ethnic enclave with no expectation of assimilation.

humanlion87 4y ago
Not having access to doctors or being unable to afford housing are due to policy failures in other areas, not purely due to higher immigration. Canada will find it tough to replenish it's workforce without high rates of immigration.
- sbaiddn 4y ago
  Canada has a housing crisis because no one is stupid enough to arrive to Canada and move to Thunder Bay (sorry TB, but you know its true). As a result all these people go live in one of three or four cities. The situation is more akin to the rapid urbanization in the third world. Infrastructure cant keep up. Just try GTA traffic. People move to Barrie just to afford a house in the GTA (Barries not GTA!). Sure Canada is "empty", but its also an inhospitable frozen waste land with 90% of the population living within 100 km of the US border. When we say Canada is "full" what we mean is that Canada cannot build fast enough. That the 3000 km^2 worth living in in Canada are really really dense.
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    The west lost it's ability to build new cities. Canada could be more like china and use multiple billions to build/encourage growth outside their core city centers. It has the land. Arguably GDP would benefit from having more populous cities between Vancouver and Toronto. Heck just give Canadians a 0% interest, 0 down mortgage for building a 500k home and residing in it for at least 10 years in say Regina.

version_five 4y ago

Immigration is not necessarily a concern. But Canada afaik does not have multicultural immigration, we have a very narrow set of countries utterly dominating our immigrants. Personally I don't think that is a good thing, diversity is important, and we need to be better at balancing the mix of people that come here to avoid monoculture

briga 4y ago
Hasn’t that always been the way it has worked? For the longest time Canadian immigration was restricted to the British isles and Western Europe (look up the Chinese immigration restriction acts). Compared to then Canada has pretty much opened the floodgates of immigration from all over the world. I don’t see the monoculture you’re suggesting, and regularly meet people from all over the globe here
Dalewyn 4y ago
"Diversity" for the sake of "diversity" is stupid and more importantly racism.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
Can you clarify what you mean by a narrow set of countries dominating immigrants? Is it disproportionate relative to the world population in general, disproportionate relative to all people migrating from one country to another?
refurb 4y ago
> But Canada afaik does not have multicultural immigration This is not correct. Toronto is 52% visible minorities. Even mid-sized cities like Calgary have big immigrant populations from Asia. When I visiting the wilderness of BC I actually ran into a guy who owned a fruit orchard who immigrated from India a few years back.

jimbob45 4y ago

Diving deeper into StatsCan’s estimate, it becomes clear that non-permanent residents — including asylum claimants, work and study permit holders and victims of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — made up most of the new additions to Canada’s population in the second quarter of 2022 Good for StatsCan for delineating their results and publishing their methodology. I see too many studies posted on HN with little to no methodology available. But, I fear that this estimate will be misleadingly used as a right-wing talking point. I don’t think many individuals would consider non-permanent residents to be “immigrants”. I certainly wouldn’t think the right-wingers would lump them in with the immigrants they consider to be problematic.

_8j50 4y ago

I wonder how much if america's worker shortage issues can be fixed by fixing immigration. Free higher education at public colleges can also go a long way. We need more people who get this stuff but hate politics to become politicians.

jwond 4y ago
When corporations and the wealthy complain about worker shortages it seems to me they really just don’t want to have to raise wages or improve working conditions to attract workers. Or in the case of jobs that require certain training or education they don’t want to have to provide that training or education.
- _8j50 4y ago
  That is bullshit propaganda. I work in infosec, one of the most interesting fields out there. No degree and I get paid very very well. We are so short on talent we are forced to hire outside the US. 90% of applicants are terrible by any meaningful metric. Even when I interviewed at a startup once they told me 85% of applicants couldn't get past technical questionaire where the hardest question was having to fix bad syntax in a 6-7 line python code. We got a guy who just got his BSC in infosec and even then they teach them so little it is ridiculous. I am talking about 90K+ for 0 experience at most places! I am not very smart, I am terrible at making friends and networking, 0 social skills, absolutley unattractive or charming. Why am I doing well? Why is everyone else complaining? I am baffled about "quiet quit" bullshit. Why don't people have self respect and pride in their work? I get retail workers getting paid an unlivable wage but come on! You don't have to code or work in infosec, before all this I worked various blue collar jobs that have similar high demand (and this was 5+ yrs ago), still no degree and all my training was on the job and it was paying ok (60-75k). Why don't people want money? That is the question that baffles me so much. I mean, even if writing code was the only way to get paid 6 figures, why aren't people lining up to code even if they hate it with passion? You get money! Of course, it is because the immigrants and minorities are taking all the jobs (I wish they would at least the things can get done). Even in US colleges and companies, look at who is writing all the papers and new findings in STEM and compsci: a lot of asian immigrants/students!

oneoff786 4y ago

Canada’s fertility rate is 1.47 It would be shrinking if not for immigration.

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nxm 4y ago

This is unsustainable long term and will lead to a downgrade in the quality of life for the average Canadian. GDP per capita peaked in early 2010s and continues to go down

Ralo 4y ago

Most of them are being thrown into the entry job that people are claiming "couldn't be filled anyways". I remember hunting for my first job as a teenager and it was pretty difficult, not a lot of openings, even less willing to take someone with zero experience. I'm not even that old, that was maybe 7-8 years ago. Many of these locations have a bias in their hiring as well, they gift their family and friends positions in these companies, refusing to work with anyone else. I seriously cannot remember the last time I have seen someone who isn't Indian working at Tim Hortons. I cannot imagine having to find a first job as a 16/17/18 year old.

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notadev 4y ago
I am having a similar problem with my son. We live in a very progressive county and he is finally eligible to work, but there are effectively zero places he can get a job. The traditional teen jobs like paper route, fast food, etc., are all filled by middle-aged immigrants.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
Can you even hire teenagers anymore? Is it still common for teenagers to work (outside of internships)? I can’t say I ever knew anyone who worked before university and in my school some teachers actively discouraged it. (I went to high school in Canada in the early 2010s). Although the hiring bias makes sense. Of course you choose relatives over strangers so that the money stays in the family.
- Ralo 4y ago
  I believe before 18, you need your parents and school principle to sign off. I don't know many kids who didn't work directly out of high school, even with university but in that case, they're just being carried by their parents and will skip directly from "first job" to "their life long career" after graduation.
  - 4y ago

spoonjim 4y ago

Canada built an exquisite society and is now handing out the benefits to whoever asks.

pcbro141 4y ago
Are immigrants mostly just leeching benefits and not contributing to building Canadian society? Based on what facts do you come to this conclusion? Has immigration historically played a role in building the exquisite Canadian society you speak of?
goatsi 4y ago
Are you unaware of the relatively strict requirements for immigration to Canada? Go ahead, see if you would make the cut: https://www.y-axis.com/skilledimmigrationpointscalculator/canada/ https://www.y-axis.com/skilledimmigrationpointscalculator/ca...

mensetmanusman 4y ago

I’m surprised people are going where housing is so expensive, where are they living?

throwawaysleep 4y ago
Housing in Canada is expensive for North America. Relative to incomes it remains cheap.
- 3qz 4y ago
  That’s not true at all.. Almost nobody with a house in Canada has the income to buy it at current prices. The only way most people can do it is because they bought a long time ago or got an inheritance from somebody who bought a long time ago
- refurb 4y ago
  No. It's actually less affordable than the US relative to income. That said, it's undergoing a massive correction right now, so you may be right in 3-5 years.
- abrichr 4y ago
  Can you please provide a source? According to https://data.oecd.org/price/housing-prices.htm https://data.oecd.org/price/housing-prices.htm Canada is only behind Portugal and The Netherlands in terms of housing price to income ratio.
trinovantes 4y ago
There are a lot of illegal housing arrangements like 2-3 families in a basement that cities tend overlook (utility usage not matching with official data) because that's the only way they can sustain the population/economic growth without triggering NIMBYs

AlimJaffer 4y ago

As with many western countries, there's a rising sentiment against immigration due to the lack of infrastructure provided to the existing citizenry. Housing in Canada is some of the least affordable in the world, our health care system is deeply underfunded, competition for spots at post secondary is rising as the institutions accept more international students as they're cash cows, and we're slowly seeing a rise in populism with the the Conservative Party electing Pierre Poilievre who is a Trump-lite figure who rails on about being for the working class while simultaneously voting against dental coverage for poor children [1]. It genuinely feels like the political class has abandoned its people and has sold out to special interest groups entirely. We import tons of TFW's (temporary foreign workers) to appease the corps to have cheap labour, and these TFW's are often treated terribly by the corps. As a first generation Canadian who is the child of refugees, I really do worry about the future of this country. I know tons of couples who are putting off having kids entirely because of the bleak economic picture in our major cities. We need immigration due to the low birthrate, but there's significant resentment from those who want kids and simply cannot afford them which is pushing down our numbers further. [1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-calls-out-poilievre-and-conservatives-for-opposing-kids-dental-benefit-while-mps-enjoy-comprehensive-coverage-1.6088673 https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-calls-out-poilievre-and-...

oatmeal_croc 4y ago

Canada is pretty much screwed without immigration, because nobody's having babies and the top talent keeps leaving to the US. Without immigration, they'd have a largely older population and not enough people to pay taxes for their free healthcare (which I don't think is sustainable or great even with immigration). Canada is also pretty selective about the skilled immigrants they let in, they don't do a random lottery or FIFO but have a points based system. You may argue about the parameters of how points are scored, but there's little doubt that it's better than a lottery.

FpUser 4y ago

Duh. What else would you expect when fertility rate is so low. It is either depopulate or bring in new people.

bentlegen 4y ago

I am sure a number of people will make comments here pointing to Canada’s struggling healthcare system as a direct effect of these immigration numbers. I just want to point out that the current and recently re-elected Ontario government (representing 14.5 million people) is currently running a $2b budget surplus [1] while simultaneously capping healthcare workers’ pay raises to just 1% a year [2] in a time of record inflation. That is to say: you get what you pay (and vote) for. [1] https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002311/ontario-releases-2021-2022-public-accounts https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002311/ontario-releases-... [2] https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/

throwawaysleep 4y ago
Also, immigrants probably disproportionately staff our health system. Our immigration system heavily favours educated professionals with job offers.
- alephxyz 4y ago
  And the ones who aren't educated often choose to become nurses, auxiliaries or beneficiary attendants. The training is 2-3 years, you get a yearly stipend and nearly guaranteed a job offer.
Teever 4y ago
That's an odd take. Most of the discussion that I see online about detrimental aspects of Canadian immigration levels are focused on housing prices/availability than health care. I think most people acknowledge that immigrants are young and relatively more fit and therefore don't consume health services nearly as much as aging, western boomers. The major issue we're facing due to the high immigration levels is the strain that it's putting on our housing availability levels. Those 270k people/year need to live somewhere, right now and that has direct effects on cost of living of everyone in Canada.
- deleted 4y ago
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cududa 4y ago

Ask Japan how it's going for them with a plummeting population level, exploding elderly population, almost a million unfilled job positions, and hardline anti-immigration policies.

Dalewyn 4y ago
A peaceful, by and large harmonious society where everyone is basically on the same page? Sure, certain industrial sectors are begging for more manpower and social security is on a ticking time bomb, but those are all arguably minor on the grander scale.
- cududa 4y ago
  It's absolutely horrific you'd refer to elder care and social security as "arguably minor".
  - huggingrear 4y ago
    Japan has the highest life expectancy in the whole world, which is certainly a factor in them skewing so old. If their elder care was so terrible, I doubt their elders would be the world's most healthy and long-living.
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    They are minor because they are ultimately issues concerning money, and issues concerning money can ALWAYS be solved given enough political and social will. Compare, say, multiple separate groups of people and cultures sitting next to each other who may or may not like each others' company as a consequence of aggressive immigration policies. You can't just throw more money at such a problem to make all the ills go away, such problems that we can't just zap away are major problems meriting more serious concern and attention.

nimbius 4y ago

true story I honestly considered emigrating from the us to Canada as a diesel engine mechanic when I was a greenhorn. Kirkland lake, a mining company, flew me up for two weeks to see things in their repair pool and even offered relocation. from my observation blue collar work in Alberta at least is seen as equal or better than white collar. you're treated sincerely and honestly at the job site and there is real respect and concern for your safety and productivity on the job. there is a very tangible and defined career path you can take, with lucrative benefits and meaningful lasting retirement. I chickened out at 19 because I didn't understand the implications of the citizenship, which requires a pledge of allegiance to the queen. old timers at my shop managed to scare me out of it but to this day I still dream of Canada.

bombcar 4y ago
Good news! You don’t have to pledge allegiance to the Queen anymore. Jokes aside there can be real implications of citizenship that people should be aware of, such as military service, taxes, and more. It’s not to be done lightly.

archhn 4y ago

I've been watching some geopolitical strategists on YouTube. They seem to be expecting a collapse of the global world order. This means they need to flood North America with fresh labor to compensate for the loss of global labor or inefficiency of doing business in a war-torn international climate. Also, the demographics are bad in the first world. Low birth rates and an aging population. I would not be surprised if the present culture was engineered to quell any dissent over the new immigration policies.

abrichr 4y ago
Interesting. Can you please share some links to the videos you are describing?
pram 4y ago
Sounds interesting, what channels?
- archhn 4y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA-jOLF2T4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA-jOLF2T4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg7pZi6peD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg7pZi6peD4

aborsy 4y ago

What does future hold for Canada? It has little tech, manufacturing or other productive industry. It was actually among the first in mobile business, with Nortel & RIM. US and China took its lunch. The jobs seem to be mostly in government, finance and service. On the other hand, housing in Canada is ridiculously unaffordable. Frankly, it might be better off as a US state, considering it has low population and isn’t able to build a competitive economy.

LAC-Tech 4y ago

Similar situation in New Zealand. The reasons are pretty similar 1. It benefits big business. It's an absolute god send for labour intensive industries to have a constantly growing pool of employees. Especially if they're from places with a worse standard of living, so they're likely to accept much lower working conditions and pay. 2. It benefits real estate speculation. Housing construction simply cannot keep up in demand, and the richest people in our respective countries have a real estate heavy portfolio. Migrants trickle into city centres, which means big construction projects as high density housing is built, as well as the knock on effective of the native born population migrating to new suburbs that get to be built from the ground up. 3. You get to feel warm and fuzzy inside. Diversity, inclusion, different foods etc etc. If native born people pay higher rents, are served by increasingly overcapacity infrastructure, and have their wages suppressed by increased competition - well they're just immoral and can be brow-beaten into accepting policies that are ultimately in place to benefit the rich.

sn0w_crash 4y ago
#3 is a big one. The warm and fuzzy feeling is also why many people are unwilling to even consider the negatives, or have a discussion. Some call it an ideological paralysis but it’s more of an addiction to moral grandstanding.

mercy_dude 4y ago

Current liberal government is running a very wild experiment here with regards to immigration. For context, when I graduated from a Canadian university back in 2014, there was a very straightforward immigration system. The students graduating from a Canadian university would get the permanent residence within about 2yrs, inna Fast track manner. Provinces used to have their own cap and “eligibility criteria” for labor pools correlated with job categories with highest demands. Then Canada decided to run some kind of a wild federally run “point based” immigration system starting 2015. Under that scheme, criterias such as education, job experience get you some assigned points. For example someone with a masters degree would get 20 points and someone with 10yr job experience would get 25points etc. You would qualify if your points are above some threshold and Federal government runs some kind of lotteries every few weeks to pick candidates in the qualified pool inviting them to apply. Except the problem is now, there are too many frauds in the system. In many countries, accreditation and job experiences can be easily bought. And now that international students graduating from Canada fall under the same pool, they have to compete with these same people sometimes holding masters degrees with job experiences that are “bought”. Result is many international students are putting up with extreme delays and most wealthier populace from third world countries buying their way out the PR with fake “points”. Add to that super visa, which gives parents and grandparents of anyone in Canada with permanent residence 10yrs visa. And finally add to that the “visitors” to Canada who end up claiming asylum, many of them crossing the border from US. In this year alone that number has surpassed 35k. Just talk to any immigration attorney and the reality on the ground is abysmal, many are taking wild advantage of lenient refugee program. Result is an extremely backlogged immigration system, rising costs of housing, slow wage growth at entry levels. Now back to The current liberal government and media Who have basically made it equivalent to racism to even talk about this issue. Very recently, a provincial immigration minister was vilified for bringing this issue to light saying “more immigrants beyond a certain cap would be a suicide”. Which is indeed true as the strained healthcare system already shows. Immigrants tend to come to Canada for its tolerant populace and free healthcare (at least when compared to US). But lately this is coming to a questionable reality as healthcare quality and wait times have gotten so bad many people are seeking private healthcare if they can afford. Coupled with a cost of living nightmare in most big cities such as Toronto and Vancouver, it is not a positive outlook and it can seriously turn the populace anti immigration and make this a seriously political issue as in US.

hgs3 4y ago

Sad. Following supply and demand economics, if there is a low supply of workers and a high demand for them, then workers must be paid more. In reality, wages stagnate, culture erodes, and systems strain because those in power artificially raise the supply of workers via immigration. Unions struggle due to the social frictions of working in a multi-cultural melting pot. Countries losing folks due to immigration are being brain drained. If you try to fight against this, you're called "racist" i.e. social engineering is weaponized to manipulate you and those around you into submission. Your kindness is used against you. Capitalism at its finest /s.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

In many countries immigration accounts for over 100% of the growth even though their rates are lower than Canada's. Many countries would be shrinking without immigration.

zaptheimpaler 4y ago

Yeah Canada is racist as fuck because of these tensions. The best part is how the media and politicians have the citizens blaming the immigrants, while the politicians and developers welcome both cheap labor and rich trust fund kids. A quick tour of the govt stats and reports on immigration show they desperately need young people to pay taxes and prop up the aging population.

nwmcsween 4y ago

So as someone who has "interviewed" the lower class immigrants and TFW, it's truely a depressing situation, a particular one showed me they lived in a converted garage with units similar to a storage locker (6x6ft) while paying a large sum of their wage (the business had a cork board with these "livable" storage units for rent) and broke down crying half way through. There have been thousands of other instances of businesess abusing this as well. Hopefully more Canadians will ask questions and stop the abuse.

kaushikc 4y ago

Canada and Australia seem to be in a very similar situation with regards to the issues surrounding immigration. https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/9j04p149 https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/9j04p149