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> Most articles, like this one tend to lay the blame at the feet of boys and men in a way that would be obscene if it were applied to women or minorities. EG th

> Most articles, like this one tend to lay the blame at the feet of boys and men in a way that would be obscene if it were applied to women or minorities. EG they are just lazier and unmotivated. But surely, we can acknowledge that there are at least some intrinsic behavioral differences between men and women. For example men are intrinsically more violent than women. 90%+ of violent crime is committed by men. This holds true across every human society ever studied. Another example, it's probably also a human universal that men have a higher predisposition to substance abuse than women. So the fact that men commit far more murders at women, we can probably lay the blame at the feet of men. It's not that society has let them down. It's that testosterone increases the propensity to violence. So, we can't categorically rule out that men are intrinsically less suited to productive participation in a post-industrial economy. (For example getting in bar fights and going to jail during prime earning years.)

s1artibartfast 4y ago
There are absolutely intrinsic differences between men and women. I think it is a valid question if men have gender specific challenges they face in modern society, economies, and cultures. It is important to remember that the purpose of society is to serve men and women, not the other way around. If there is a problem, we should look at society with a critical lens to see if there are areas to reform to create a better fit. Sure, men are probably always going to commit murder at a higher rate. That said, if men are depressed due to a lack of competitive and physical outlets, that is something worth consideration.
JSavageOne 4y ago
Suggesting that high testosterone being correlated with higher rates of violence implies that men are " intrinsically less suited to productive participation in a post-industrial economy" is an enormous logical leap. Higher testosterone I would guess (this is not my area of expertise so I emphasize "guess" here) is probably also correlated with higher competitiveness, leadership, and work drive, all perfectly suited for a post-industrial economy. Men are significantly more likely to pursue entrepreneurship and be competitive within companies (in fact studies show that the wage gap is the result of women prioritizing temporal flexibility, ie. greater work/life balance). If you're going to suggest that men aren't suited to productive participation, you need to consider more variables than simply violence rates, which in practice is only relevant to a tiny fraction of the population.
deleted 4y ago
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ReactiveJelly 4y ago
I don't know if there's a causal link between testosterone and violence. I'm on feminizing HRT, so my T is lower than it used to be, and I still get angry about as much as I did before. And I don't see a lot of trans men throwing rage tantrums when they increase their T. Maybe the correlation appears after sampling bias - If men are bigger on average, they might feel safer acting violent than a smaller person.
- zzzzzzzza 4y ago
  my suspicion would be that male violence is linked very strongly to dating/sex/mating. though that's probably true for both genders. women w/ more inward domestic violence, men more violent against competitors.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    In current society I suspect a man being abused by a woman is considered "a joke" (the words "man up" come to mind)
nradov 4y ago
There is no reliable evidence that testosterone increases the propensity to violence in humans. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.yhbeh.2019.104644 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.yhbeh.2019.104644
silexia 4y ago
Black people have a higher murder rate than white people worldwide. That does not mean black people are more intrinsically violent than white people or "intrinsically less suited to productive participation in a post-industrial economy". Often these problems are cause by systems we have set up rather than by innate character qualities.
Slamidan 4y ago
Women aren't certainly more productive in a post industrialized economy. Its only due to government mandated favoritism and hand outs that women gain economic independence. After all, if the old claim of women doing more for less were true, no one would be forced to hire them. Any venture primarily manned by women fails for all the usual unmentionable reasons, and we have to pretend this isn't true. They sometimes say women are better represented in successful companies, but as with all consequences of regulatory capture, its more that they are able to carry the burden to suppress the competition.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
I read this and interpret this with "men communicate more with the body than with words", rather than "more violent". Yes the communication can be hostile.

s1artibartfast 4y ago

There are absolutely intrinsic differences between men and women. I think it is a valid question if men have gender specific challenges they face in modern society, economies, and cultures. It is important to remember that the purpose of society is to serve men and women, not the other way around. If there is a problem, we should look at society with a critical lens to see if there are areas to reform to create a better fit. Sure, men are probably always going to commit murder at a higher rate. That said, if men are depressed due to a lack of competitive and physical outlets, that is something worth consideration.

JSavageOne 4y ago

Suggesting that high testosterone being correlated with higher rates of violence implies that men are " intrinsically less suited to productive participation in a post-industrial economy" is an enormous logical leap. Higher testosterone I would guess (this is not my area of expertise so I emphasize "guess" here) is probably also correlated with higher competitiveness, leadership, and work drive, all perfectly suited for a post-industrial economy. Men are significantly more likely to pursue entrepreneurship and be competitive within companies (in fact studies show that the wage gap is the result of women prioritizing temporal flexibility, ie. greater work/life balance). If you're going to suggest that men aren't suited to productive participation, you need to consider more variables than simply violence rates, which in practice is only relevant to a tiny fraction of the population.

deleted 4y ago

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ReactiveJelly 4y ago

I don't know if there's a causal link between testosterone and violence. I'm on feminizing HRT, so my T is lower than it used to be, and I still get angry about as much as I did before. And I don't see a lot of trans men throwing rage tantrums when they increase their T. Maybe the correlation appears after sampling bias - If men are bigger on average, they might feel safer acting violent than a smaller person.

zzzzzzzza 4y ago
my suspicion would be that male violence is linked very strongly to dating/sex/mating. though that's probably true for both genders. women w/ more inward domestic violence, men more violent against competitors.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  In current society I suspect a man being abused by a woman is considered "a joke" (the words "man up" come to mind)

nradov 4y ago

There is no reliable evidence that testosterone increases the propensity to violence in humans. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.yhbeh.2019.104644 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.yhbeh.2019.104644

silexia 4y ago

Black people have a higher murder rate than white people worldwide. That does not mean black people are more intrinsically violent than white people or "intrinsically less suited to productive participation in a post-industrial economy". Often these problems are cause by systems we have set up rather than by innate character qualities.

Slamidan 4y ago

Women aren't certainly more productive in a post industrialized economy. Its only due to government mandated favoritism and hand outs that women gain economic independence. After all, if the old claim of women doing more for less were true, no one would be forced to hire them. Any venture primarily manned by women fails for all the usual unmentionable reasons, and we have to pretend this isn't true. They sometimes say women are better represented in successful companies, but as with all consequences of regulatory capture, its more that they are able to carry the burden to suppress the competition.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago

I read this and interpret this with "men communicate more with the body than with words", rather than "more violent". Yes the communication can be hostile.