3 ms·

The concept of device drivers being within the kernel is a terrible idea. It should instead offer a stable ABI for drivers to be external and (within reason) be

The concept of device drivers being within the kernel is a terrible idea. It should instead offer a stable ABI for drivers to be external and (within reason) be independent of the kernel version.

6ue7nNMEEbHcM 4y ago
This, a thousand times. But apparently it's much more difficult than it seems.
- metaltyphoon 4y ago
  Isn’t this what windows does?
  - simfree 4y ago
    If you call changing APIs every other major release of Windows, then sure. Having your drivers in tree allows the developer changing said API to update everything in tree that depends on said API which they are changing.
    - tredre3 4y ago
      > If you call changing APIs every other major release of Windows, then sure. Yet here I am, on windows 10, using printer drivers designed and released for windows vista.
      - m00x 4y ago
        tbf, HID is much easier.
      - NGRhodes 4y ago
        On Windows 11, I am not able to use my finger print reader using the Windows 10 drivers from my oem, this is reported by device manager.
gkbrk 4y ago
This is exactly why on Windows open source drivers are a rounding error while on Linux open-source drivers are the norm.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  A proprietary driver that works is better than an open-source one that doesn’t work or doesn’t even exist.
  - traverseda 4y ago
    Sure, but like 5 open source drivers is better than one proprietary driver that works, so that math gets complicated pretty fast. For a while you could actually use windows USB wifi drivers (Ndiswrapper) under linux, but it turned out to be unnecessary eventually.
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      It's ironic that the Windows system of stable ABI is the reason NDISWrapper was feasible in the first place.
      - traverseda 4y ago
        Not ironic, kind of the point. If we cared all that much in the linux world about a stable driver ABI we could literally just implement the windows one, like reactos did.
    - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
      1 working proprietary driver is better than 5 half-assed open source drivers
      - traverseda 4y ago
        You see my thought is that a lot of proprietary drivers end up being half assed, and kernal code tends to be pretty good. Your mileage may vary though.

The concept of device drivers being within the kernel is a terrible idea. It should instead offer a stable ABI for drivers to be external and (within reason) be independent of the kernel version.

6ue7nNMEEbHcM 4y ago

This, a thousand times. But apparently it's much more difficult than it seems.

metaltyphoon 4y ago
Isn’t this what windows does?
- simfree 4y ago
  If you call changing APIs every other major release of Windows, then sure. Having your drivers in tree allows the developer changing said API to update everything in tree that depends on said API which they are changing.
  - tredre3 4y ago
    > If you call changing APIs every other major release of Windows, then sure. Yet here I am, on windows 10, using printer drivers designed and released for windows vista.
    - m00x 4y ago
      tbf, HID is much easier.
    - NGRhodes 4y ago
      On Windows 11, I am not able to use my finger print reader using the Windows 10 drivers from my oem, this is reported by device manager.

gkbrk 4y ago

This is exactly why on Windows open source drivers are a rounding error while on Linux open-source drivers are the norm.

Nextgrid 4y ago
A proprietary driver that works is better than an open-source one that doesn’t work or doesn’t even exist.
- traverseda 4y ago
  Sure, but like 5 open source drivers is better than one proprietary driver that works, so that math gets complicated pretty fast. For a while you could actually use windows USB wifi drivers (Ndiswrapper) under linux, but it turned out to be unnecessary eventually.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    It's ironic that the Windows system of stable ABI is the reason NDISWrapper was feasible in the first place.
    - traverseda 4y ago
      Not ironic, kind of the point. If we cared all that much in the linux world about a stable driver ABI we could literally just implement the windows one, like reactos did.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    1 working proprietary driver is better than 5 half-assed open source drivers
    - traverseda 4y ago
      You see my thought is that a lot of proprietary drivers end up being half assed, and kernal code tends to be pretty good. Your mileage may vary though.