3 ms·

What's really important about this isn't bicycles in the traditional sense, it's infra that can be used with e-bikes, e-skateboards, e-mini-scooters, etc. I th

What's really important about this isn't bicycles in the traditional sense, it's infra that can be used with e-bikes, e-skateboards, e-mini-scooters, etc. I think the sweet spot is a 50 mile range single person miniscooter (similar to birds, etc), that will be lightweight and foldable and charge quick on 110V. You take that to work, fold it up, charge it whjile you work, use it for lunch/errands, fold it up again, commute home. The current Birds/etc scooters are juuuust a bit to heavy. I think it's well within the next-gen LFP and sodium ion to produce usable 50 mile scooter that weight 2/3 to 1/2 of a the scooter sharing service designs. Those should practically be free to any resident of a city in the world in terms of tax rebates or a stipend. I really can't think of a bigger carbon bang for the buck than a 200$ free credit to buy an e-scooter and $1000 for an e-bike+trailer for basic groceries errands. The portable/foldable e-scooter is a very natural integration with mass transit and intercity as well, while bikes are a lot harder to integrate.

Scoundreller 4y ago
I think the future is much shorter range out of the box, but you slide a supplemental battery when you need extra range. (This applies to cars too: would love to have a battery pack that slides out for the lawnmower/snowblower/chainsaw and then recharges in the car and gives extra miles of range when needed). There are some shared electrified scooters in Taiwan where you slide in and out battery packs from something like a vending machine. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwmPcClWrE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwmPcClWrE
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  I think you don't need a battery swap system. What you need is an aerodynamic trailer for long distances that is an extra battery, or it's a generator for camping/extreme distance. To swap you just pull up, unhook the old trailer, hook up a precharged one. And it could provide more storage. This would work especially well for tractor trailers. The power trailer could actively stabilize the truck in crosswind situations, and provide a better aerodynamic profile in the rear.
  - AtlasBarfed 4y ago
    Edit: to clarify, for cars you don't need a battery swap. Blade scooters / etc where the battery pack can be easily manipulated by hand, yeah, swappable batteries through the wazoo. I've already seen this in power tools though, every company loves to play shitty games with form factors/plugs/etc to lock you into their tool ecosystem. THAT SUCKS. Your battery for you lawnmower should be usable/interfaceable with your bike. Yes form factors and design can demand specific shaping, but I should still be able to use the same plug between similar tool/personal vehicle applications of batteries.
Matthias247 4y ago
> I really can't think of a bigger carbon bang for the buck than a 200$ free credit to buy an e-scooter and $1000 for an e-bike+trailer for basic groceries errands. Assuming people would use those - totally! The risk is unfortunately that people just get them because they are free, and in the end are still driving cars for convenience. I guess one would need some system where the credit is earned via actual usage. You pay for it full price, but for ever ridden km you get credit. You already mentioned tax rebates, and those might indeed be a good way. However those already exist in countries for other kinds of commuting - e.g. if I commute by any kind of vehicle in germany I get a 30ct/km tax discount - whether it's a car or scooter. Picking a higher number for a vehicle which is cheaper to own doesn't really sound logical - but maybe just the marketing effect of it would drive adoption.
Schroedingersat 4y ago
They should only be rebated if they come with an unconditional 10 year warranty and no features that depend on software running elsewhere. Otherwise it's just a handout to xiaomi to create landfill. Also scooters aren't the only compact mobility option. Trifold bikes are about as portable. They also have the ability to emergency brake without tipping you face first into the pavement.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Trifolds are simply too bulky, expensive, and greasy for the main populace. Don't get me wrong, I would like a subsidized push for that too, but the e-scooter seems like the best thing to get everyone going, which is why Bird/etc used that and not e-bikes.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    Escooters also have risks that vehicles with a further back/lower center of mass and larger wheels do not. https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/e-scooter-injury-rate-los-angeles https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/e-scooter-injury-rate-los... Stats are heavily skewed by different demographics (ie. lower experience, more drunk people), so the real effect is probably nowhere as big as the stats indicate, but without specific training emergency braking or hitting a pothole on a scooter is much more dangerous (even more so than a racing bicycle). Electric unicycles and 'hoverboards' are even more dangerous in this regard. Also having pedals means you can make the battery a lot smaller a the 40-60W needed to overcome drag at 15mph is a relatively trivial input for 99% of people. I'd still be behind a subsidy for any vehicle that fits some portability critereon (fits on a train, or maybe an additional amount if it fits on a bus) and has strong evidence of longevity, durability and serviceability (so no walmart bikes, nothing that requires an app and no racing bikes that require expensive parts which change every four years), because even the most dangerous folding scooters (including the illegal 50mph ones) or other microtransit pose far less risk to others than a car. I'd also include mandatory documented standards for consumables (wheels, tyres, chains, batteries, motor controllers, gears, bearings etc)

Scoundreller 4y ago

I think the future is much shorter range out of the box, but you slide a supplemental battery when you need extra range. (This applies to cars too: would love to have a battery pack that slides out for the lawnmower/snowblower/chainsaw and then recharges in the car and gives extra miles of range when needed). There are some shared electrified scooters in Taiwan where you slide in and out battery packs from something like a vending machine. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwmPcClWrE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwmPcClWrE

AtlasBarfed 4y ago
I think you don't need a battery swap system. What you need is an aerodynamic trailer for long distances that is an extra battery, or it's a generator for camping/extreme distance. To swap you just pull up, unhook the old trailer, hook up a precharged one. And it could provide more storage. This would work especially well for tractor trailers. The power trailer could actively stabilize the truck in crosswind situations, and provide a better aerodynamic profile in the rear.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Edit: to clarify, for cars you don't need a battery swap. Blade scooters / etc where the battery pack can be easily manipulated by hand, yeah, swappable batteries through the wazoo. I've already seen this in power tools though, every company loves to play shitty games with form factors/plugs/etc to lock you into their tool ecosystem. THAT SUCKS. Your battery for you lawnmower should be usable/interfaceable with your bike. Yes form factors and design can demand specific shaping, but I should still be able to use the same plug between similar tool/personal vehicle applications of batteries.

Matthias247 4y ago

> I really can't think of a bigger carbon bang for the buck than a 200$ free credit to buy an e-scooter and $1000 for an e-bike+trailer for basic groceries errands. Assuming people would use those - totally! The risk is unfortunately that people just get them because they are free, and in the end are still driving cars for convenience. I guess one would need some system where the credit is earned via actual usage. You pay for it full price, but for ever ridden km you get credit. You already mentioned tax rebates, and those might indeed be a good way. However those already exist in countries for other kinds of commuting - e.g. if I commute by any kind of vehicle in germany I get a 30ct/km tax discount - whether it's a car or scooter. Picking a higher number for a vehicle which is cheaper to own doesn't really sound logical - but maybe just the marketing effect of it would drive adoption.

Schroedingersat 4y ago

They should only be rebated if they come with an unconditional 10 year warranty and no features that depend on software running elsewhere. Otherwise it's just a handout to xiaomi to create landfill. Also scooters aren't the only compact mobility option. Trifold bikes are about as portable. They also have the ability to emergency brake without tipping you face first into the pavement.

AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Trifolds are simply too bulky, expensive, and greasy for the main populace. Don't get me wrong, I would like a subsidized push for that too, but the e-scooter seems like the best thing to get everyone going, which is why Bird/etc used that and not e-bikes.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Escooters also have risks that vehicles with a further back/lower center of mass and larger wheels do not. https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/e-scooter-injury-rate-los-angeles https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/e-scooter-injury-rate-los... Stats are heavily skewed by different demographics (ie. lower experience, more drunk people), so the real effect is probably nowhere as big as the stats indicate, but without specific training emergency braking or hitting a pothole on a scooter is much more dangerous (even more so than a racing bicycle). Electric unicycles and 'hoverboards' are even more dangerous in this regard. Also having pedals means you can make the battery a lot smaller a the 40-60W needed to overcome drag at 15mph is a relatively trivial input for 99% of people. I'd still be behind a subsidy for any vehicle that fits some portability critereon (fits on a train, or maybe an additional amount if it fits on a bus) and has strong evidence of longevity, durability and serviceability (so no walmart bikes, nothing that requires an app and no racing bikes that require expensive parts which change every four years), because even the most dangerous folding scooters (including the illegal 50mph ones) or other microtransit pose far less risk to others than a car. I'd also include mandatory documented standards for consumables (wheels, tyres, chains, batteries, motor controllers, gears, bearings etc)